Would this bridge work with a Vintera Jazz? UPDATE: no

[timtam]

UPDATE

I ordered a Fender American Pro bridge and it doesn't fit in the thimbles as they are too tight. So it's as I thought: Vintera thimbles are actually tighter than standard JM ones. Feel kinda bummed but it's no biggie anyway

Well that's indeed annoying. So Fender have seemingly made the 7.25" Mustang-style bridge upgrade option that they offer incompatible with the guitar for which many people would want to use it (and possibly for the Vintera II 50s JM too).

Were you able to measure all the relevant dimensions to verify that it's actually the Vintera thimbles that are the problem, rather than say possibly wider bridge posts on that 7.25" "Am Pro" bridge ? (which is actually the Marr jag bridge and has never been on an Am Pro guitar).

It would be great to get measurements on its bridge posts and those of the stock Vintera vintage-style bridge, and the Vintera's thimble internal diameter. Because if it is indeed the Vintera's thimbles that are narrower then that would also have implications for Staytrem, Halon, Descendant, Tuffset, etc. The (non-rocking) Mastery basically suggest that you use their own custom thimbles on pretty much every guitar.

[f__P]

i Will do that later and post my measurements. Anyway I will give the jazz to my luthier to get It modded for a mastery bridge and call it a day

[f__P]

Ok, here we are. keep in mind I'm using an old caliper, so the measurements aren't 100% accurate...

American pro bridge posts: 7 mm
Vintera bridge posts: 6,5 mm
Vintera thimbles: 6,5mm (more realistically 6,6 mm)

Does anyone knows the internal diameter of standard thimbles?

[alexpigment]

According to another thread I found, the American vintage thimbles are ".316" (8.3 mm) inside".

Source:
viewtopic.php?t=97932

[GilmourD]

Ok, here we are. keep in mind I'm using an old caliper, so the measurements aren't 100% accurate...

American pro bridge posts: 7 mm
Vintera bridge posts: 6,5 mm
Vintera thimbles: 6,5mm (more realistically 6,6 mm)

Does anyone knows the internal diameter of standard thimbles?

I have both import and AVRI thimbles at home and I can measure with calipers... Please message me if I forget to report back because work destroys my ADHD addled brain.

I'm curious what the outer diameter on the Vintera and Vintera II thimbles are.

[tammyw]

Ah, I remeber the MIM "Standard" Jazzmaster (HH) first had those narrow thimbles back in 2015.

But 7mm is also too big for American Professional. I mean the American Professional guitars had the plastic bushings in the top of the thimbles, and 7mm would never fit in those.

[GilmourD]

Ok, here we are. keep in mind I'm using an old caliper, so the measurements aren't 100% accurate...

American pro bridge posts: 7 mm
Vintera bridge posts: 6,5 mm
Vintera thimbles: 6,5mm (more realistically 6,6 mm)

Does anyone knows the internal diameter of standard thimbles?

I have both import and AVRI thimbles at home and I can measure with calipers... Please message me if I forget to report back because work destroys my ADHD addled brain.

I'm curious what the outer diameter on the Vintera and Vintera II thimbles are.

OK, import (CV) ID is 8.1mm, the AVRI ID is 8.0mm, the post on the AmPro 9.5" bridge I have is 6.3mm, CV bridge is 5.9mm, the first-gen Staytrem is 5.8mm, and the second-gen Staytrem is 5.7mm. Unfortunately I don't have an actual Marr bridge (the AmPro 7.25") or a Vintera of either generation to measure.

[timtam]

Just measured a few 'standard' thimbles and their ID was indeed around 7.8-8mm.

As in my earlier post,the bridge posts on the 9.5" Am Pro bridge are ~6.4mm diameter, which is in the standard post size ballpark - about the same as the Staytrem's and your Vintera's stock vintage-style bridge's. But substantially less than the 7mm you measured for the Marr/Am Pro 7.25" posts. So the 9.5" Am Pro/Staytrem etc bridges fit standard thimbles and allow the expected rocking ( the 9.5" Am Pro bridge has about 0.7-0.8mm space to rock in each direction within standard thimbles).

But based on your measurements of your Vintera's stock vintage-style threaded-barrel bridge post diameter (6.5mm) and reduced thimble ID (6.5mm), that bridge has no room to rock. Which has also been recently reported for the new Vintera II's.

So Fender with the Vinteras appear to have taken a vintage-style bridge (with standard 6.5mm post diameter) and made it non-rocking - and therefore non-vintage - by reducing the thimble ID from around 8mm to around 6.5mm.

That would also be consistent with the bridge/thimbles having a new part number (7705076000) that we had never seen prior to the Vintera 60s (the parts manuals for the Vintera II's have yet to be released). Even though it's obviously not a 'Mustang' bridge as described in the parts manual ('Mustang' and 'threaded saddles' being mutually exclusive).
MUSTANG BRIDGE W/THREADED SADDLES 7705076000

And the Marr/Am Pro 7.25" bridge you bought - with 7mm posts as measured - would fit standard thimbles, albeit with reduced rocking room. But as you found, it won't fit what seem to be reduced internal diameter thimbles (6.5mm) on the Vintera guitars.

What a mess Fender. You made the Vintera bridges non-rocking without telling anyone. And the very 7.25" bridge (Marr/Am Pro) that most people would choose to upgrade their Vintera's threaded-barrel vintage-style bridge won't fit those guitars. Because of the smaller diameter thimbles, the options for Vintera I/II bridge upgrades would appear to be severely limited, unless the thimbles are replaced with standard ID thimbles (whether that requires re-drilling the guitar will depend on what the actual outer diameter thimble measurements turn out to be).

[Jezmund13]

I just got this same guitar. Does anyone know if the staytrem bridge will drop right into the existing thimbles?

[Caddy65]

I see these threads all the time and fail to understand what the problem is with the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge has has been in use since the guitars were first introduced.

I bought a new Jazzmaster in 1964 and my buddy (lead player) had a 1963 Jaguar. Neither of us ever encountered a problem with the bridges and I played mine in a band for a good number of years. Never had a string move on the saddles or not return to pitch after normal trem use.

I have a Squier VM Jazzmaster that I bought new in 2012 and again have had zero issues with the stock bridge. I did put a tiny bit of Blue Loctite on the saddle and bridge screws to keep them from moving. Set up the guitar and have not had to adjust anything since. In fact, it is my most tuning stable guitar.
I did put a Graphtech Tusq nut on it when I set it up. Changed nothing on the bridge or trem. I think the stock trem and bridge on these is a great design.

[timtam]

I just got this same guitar. Does anyone know if the staytrem bridge will drop right into the existing thimbles?

Assuming your guitar's thimbles have the (reduced) 6.5mm internal diameter that is being reported for this guitar, the Staytrem's post diameter of 5.7-5.8mm should drop in and have just enough room to rock (unlike the stock bridge on this Vintera model). Although not as much rocking 'room' as it's supposed to get.

[f__P]

I see these threads all the time and fail to understand what the problem is with the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge has has been in use since the guitars were first introduced.

I bought a new Jazzmaster in 1964 and my buddy (lead player) had a 1963 Jaguar. Neither of us ever encountered a problem with the bridges and I played mine in a band for a good number of years. Never had a string move on the saddles or not return to pitch after normal trem use.

I have a Squier VM Jazzmaster that I bought new in 2012 and again have had zero issues with the stock bridge. I did put a tiny bit of Blue Loctite on the saddle and bridge screws to keep them from moving. Set up the guitar and have not had to adjust anything since. In fact, it is my most tuning stable guitar.
I did put a Graphtech Tusq nut on it when I set it up. Changed nothing on the bridge or trem. I think the stock trem and bridge on these is a great design.

Your nice experience sadly doesn't have any statistical value, since the vast majority of users has had issues with the stock bridge. I had with any of the 6 Jazzmasters/Jags I had in the past. You've been lucky, that's all, but this doesn't allow you to imply a judgement over the other guitarists. "In the old days" rhetorical stuff has grown old quite a bit, you know, and can be seen as quite offensive too

[DrippyReverbTremolo]

I see these threads all the time and fail to understand what the problem is with the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge has has been in use since the guitars were first introduced.

I bought a new Jazzmaster in 1964 and my buddy (lead player) had a 1963 Jaguar. Neither of us ever encountered a problem with the bridges and I played mine in a band for a good number of years. Never had a string move on the saddles or not return to pitch after normal trem use.

I have a Squier VM Jazzmaster that I bought new in 2012 and again have had zero issues with the stock bridge. I did put a tiny bit of Blue Loctite on the saddle and bridge screws to keep them from moving. Set up the guitar and have not had to adjust anything since. In fact, it is my most tuning stable guitar.
I did put a Graphtech Tusq nut on it when I set it up. Changed nothing on the bridge or trem. I think the stock trem and bridge on these is a great design.

Your nice experience sadly doesn't have any statistical value, since the vast majority of users has had issues with the stock bridge. I had with any of the 6 Jazzmasters/Jags I had in the past. You've been lucky, that's all, but this doesn't allow you to imply a judgement over the other guitarists. "In the old days" rhetorical stuff has grown old quite a bit, you know, and can be seen as quite offensive too

1. Not 'lucky' but the result of a properly set-up JM. Neck-angle, string gauge, nut. Everything else is personal preference. Even string spacing is.

2. If you think 65Caddy's post is judgemental and offensive, then you really should read your own reply and check your choice of words.

[f__P]

I see these threads all the time and fail to understand what the problem is with the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge has has been in use since the guitars were first introduced.

I bought a new Jazzmaster in 1964 and my buddy (lead player) had a 1963 Jaguar. Neither of us ever encountered a problem with the bridges and I played mine in a band for a good number of years. Never had a string move on the saddles or not return to pitch after normal trem use.

I have a Squier VM Jazzmaster that I bought new in 2012 and again have had zero issues with the stock bridge. I did put a tiny bit of Blue Loctite on the saddle and bridge screws to keep them from moving. Set up the guitar and have not had to adjust anything since. In fact, it is my most tuning stable guitar.
I did put a Graphtech Tusq nut on it when I set it up. Changed nothing on the bridge or trem. I think the stock trem and bridge on these is a great design.

Your nice experience sadly doesn't have any statistical value, since the vast majority of users has had issues with the stock bridge. I had with any of the 6 Jazzmasters/Jags I had in the past. You've been lucky, that's all, but this doesn't allow you to imply a judgement over the other guitarists. "In the old days" rhetorical stuff has grown old quite a bit, you know, and can be seen as quite offensive too

1. Not 'lucky' but the result of a properly set-up JM. Neck-angle, string gauge, nut. Everything else is personal preference. Even string spacing is.

2. If you think 65Caddy's post is judgemental and offensive, then you really should read your own reply and check your choice of words.

Sorry not sorry, and I would love to know exactly what my own "choice of words" meant to you. But I agree 100% to your first point: everything is personal preference, even changing bridge

[Caddy65]

I see these threads all the time and fail to understand what the problem is with the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge has has been in use since the guitars were first introduced.

I bought a new Jazzmaster in 1964 and my buddy (lead player) had a 1963 Jaguar. Neither of us ever encountered a problem with the bridges and I played mine in a band for a good number of years. Never had a string move on the saddles or not return to pitch after normal trem use.

I have a Squier VM Jazzmaster that I bought new in 2012 and again have had zero issues with the stock bridge. I did put a tiny bit of Blue Loctite on the saddle and bridge screws to keep them from moving. Set up the guitar and have not had to adjust anything since. In fact, it is my most tuning stable guitar.
I did put a Graphtech Tusq nut on it when I set it up. Changed nothing on the bridge or trem. I think the stock trem and bridge on these is a great design.

Your nice experience sadly doesn't have any statistical value, since the vast majority of users has had issues with the stock bridge. I had with any of the 6 Jazzmasters/Jags I had in the past. You've been lucky, that's all, but this doesn't allow you to imply a judgement over the other guitarists. "In the old days" rhetorical stuff has grown old quite a bit, you know, and can be seen as quite offensive too

Neither us it good to dismiss someone else experiences (that have played these guitars for 60 years. They have worked just fine in stock form by some very good professional players in stock form for years, oeople like The Ventures, Luther Perkins, Joe Pass, Roy Clark, The Beach Boys, members if The Wrecking Crew, and the list goes on. This was all before any aftermarket parts were available, so they had to have been stock. Further speaking of ‘the old days’ just represents many years of experience.