Questions About Messy Jazz/Partsmaster I'm Trying to Upgrade

[armensguitars]

In terms of the thimbles, it looks like someone just doweled the original thimble holes then redrilled for the other bridge. I would just drill press the current dowels for the mastery thimbles after checking for intonation (maybe overlay a schematic). Also, based on the routes shown, I can confirm that it is a refinished vintage Fender Jazzmaster body, which is great! Not sure about the pickups.

[Pavol Stromcek]

I'm missing something. Just drill out/remove those poorly made existing plugs and press the proper Jazzmaster thimbles in?

I think the missing part might be a drill press.

It's not something I would do if I didn't have the proper tools and this is definitely something I would want to tackle with a proper, properly straight drill press.

I know! If it were just a matter of slightly widening and deepening already existing holes, I could do that with a handheld drill and a drill block. But I think this is turning into "I need to find a professional with a drill press" territory.

[Pavol Stromcek]

In terms of the thimbles, it looks like someone just doweled the original thimble holes then redrilled for the other bridge. I would just drill press the current dowels for the mastery thimbles after checking for intonation (maybe overlay a schematic). Also, based on the routes shown, I can confirm that it is a refinished vintage Fender Jazzmaster body, which is great! Not sure about the pickups.

Yes, that very well may be what happened. Do you happen to know where one can find a schematic?

Also, I'm curious—what details did you see in the routes that indicate it's a vintage Fender JM body?

[armensguitars]

Not sure, I have luckily avoided thimble problems in my time with Jazzmasters. And the routing marks are very familiar. Notably, theres a little circle (about half an inch radius?) in the corner of the route that is usually indicative of a vintage Jazzmaster. I am happy to PM you pics of a refin '64/'65 body I have that is actually the same color.

[BTL]

You definitely want to plug the existing holes, then drill the new holes with a drill press. Trying to drill without plugging first is just asking for trouble.

[Pavol Stromcek]

Not sure, I have luckily avoided thimble problems in my time with Jazzmasters. And the routing marks are very familiar. Notably, theres a little circle (about half an inch radius?) in the corner of the route that is usually indicative of a vintage Jazzmaster. I am happy to PM you pics of a refin '64/'65 body I have that is actually the same color.

Interesting—yes, I'm curious to see pics of your JM. The shop I bought this from, back in the early 90s, claimed that this was a 60s JM body, but I was never able to verify that.

[Pavol Stromcek]

You definitely want to plug the existing holes, then drill the new holes with a drill press. Trying to drill without plugging first is just asking for trouble.

I agree. When I hold the Mastery bridge with its thimbles over the bridge area, I can see that the spacing of the current holes is just a smidgen further apart than the spacing for the Mastery. So, if I were to drill by widening the current holes, I'd be left with a small sliver of extra space at one end that I'd have to fill, if that makes sense. I think it's safer to start with a fresh "slate," so to speak.

If the existing holes were in the right spot, then they could probably just be enlarged. But the fact that they are a bit off and not in a straight up-and-down vertical line is what makes this tricky.

[rumfoord]

I think the missing part might be a drill press.

It's not something I would do if I didn't have the proper tools and this is definitely something I would want to tackle with a proper, properly straight drill press.

So, if this was my guitar, I'd probably do something good enough to get by with the tools I have (hand drill) and hope I could pull it off without noticeable errors. Most times I can get it to look good on the outside even if evidence of amateur decisions lie behind the covered places.

In this case, I'd choose either the size dowel I had on hand or next largest from the hole from the hardware store. I'd enlarge the hole, stick the dowel in to mark the depth, and cut the dowel juuuust shy of level with the top. Done right, I can glue the dowel in and have it not sink more than a millimeter below flush.

Then I'd redrill on whatever new center point seems best. I'd use a jig to attempt a straight hole, but I wouldn't worry if it wasn't absolutely perfect. I drilled some through-body holes in a bass using the following janky method: Take an old plastic prescription bottle. The lid and bottom have small protrusions of plastic right at the center from the injection molding process (or something, I'm just guessing). Use an awl or some sharp point to make a divot at that spot. Using a very small drill bit, drill holes on these points. Buy an extra long small drill bit if you don't have one, like for drilling wiring holes in a guitar body. If necessary, drill out the lid and bottom of the pill bottle to the size of this long bit. You now have a right angle cylinder that you can hold against a flat topped guitar body to drill a perpendicular hole—the long drill bit will run down the center line of the cylinder. Mark the new center point, drill the holes almost to the right depth with the small bit. With that guide hole, the cone at the bottom of the correctly sized larger bit should make the larger hole follow the same perpendicular center line (maybe enlarge in a few steps). Then go to the correct depth.

I'd just tap the thimbles into the holes with a block and hammer. I've never done this with bridge thimbles. Is there some way for the thimble to be any further from straight than the hole? It seems like it'd be exactly the same. When I used the above method, I also did the drilling in a position where I was standing above the guitar and could use gravity to help me attempt to keep the drill perpendicular. Honestly, for through-body holes, just standing over the body and trying to drill straight down is probably straight enough for me. But that's one dumb idea if it's helpful.

[Pavol Stromcek]

So, if this was my guitar, I'd probably do something good enough to get by with the tools I have (hand drill) and hope I could pull it off without noticeable errors. . . .

Yeah, if I had done this sort of thing many times, I might feel comfortable attempting it in the way you suggest. But I'm acutely aware of my own limitations, and if I'm having to drill fresh new bridge thimble holes from scratch, I'm not going to be confident that I'll get it dead accurate. I could manage the doweling myself, but for something like this that needs to be super precise, I'd rather pay a professional with a drill press.

That said, the Vox bridge that was on there was ever-so-slightly crooked for all these years, and that never had any impact on intonation or function (hell, I never even noticed it 'til recently). So, it's possible that a new bridge could be 1/16th of an inch off and not have any noticeable effect. Still, I'd really prefer to get it right.

(The place I bought this guitar from was kind of known for less-than-ideal craftsmanship. They specialized in putting together and selling budget "Frankenstein" guitars cobbled together from various parts, which was great for young, naive teens with little money who wanted something unique and vintage-y, but some of their lower- and mid-priced inventory would sometimes leave you with a sense of buyer's remorse if you closely inspected their work. Case in point: the guy who put my Jazzmaster together made these modifications that are a major PITA to reverse, just so he could install a bridge that offers zero benefit over an original one, and is likely inferior.)

[Pavol Stromcek]

Well, I've booked a slot with a local repair shop to bring my Jazzmaster in to redo the bridge holes. Unfortunately, the guy is booked for a month out! I've never used him before, but I hear good things and he's local.

While I'm at it, it occurred to me that I could also get this guy to deal with the Allparts neck on this thing, as there's a wide gap (nearly 1/8th of an inch) between the heel end of the neck and the body. I'm thinking of having him dowel the neck bolt holes and drill new ones so that the neck's end can be pushed all the way up to the body and eliminate that gap.

I was measuring the current scale length, and it's actually about 1/8th inch too long (the same width as the neck heel gap), so nudging the neck up that same distance to meet the body would actually bring the scale length closer to the intended 25.5 inches. On the current bridge, the barrels are nearly all jammed up to the front/pickup side for correct intonation, which indicates that the scale length could be off.

I'm hoping this could be viable solution (as opposed to buying a new neck), since I actually have no problems with the neck itself.

[GilmourD]

Well, I've booked a slot with a local repair shop to bring my Jazzmaster in to redo the bridge holes. Unfortunately, the guy is booked for a month out! I've never used him before, but I hear good things and he's local.

While I'm at it, it occurred to me that I could also get this guy to deal with the Allparts neck on this thing, as there's a wide gap (nearly 1/8th of an inch) between the heel end of the neck and the body. I'm thinking of having him dowel the neck bolt holes and drill new ones so that the neck's end can be pushed all the way up to the body and eliminate that gap.

I was measuring the current scale length, and it's actually about 1/8th inch too long (the same width as the neck heel gap), so nudging the neck up that same distance to meet the body would actually bring the scale length closer to the intended 25.5 inches. On the current bridge, the barrels are nearly all jammed up to the front/pickup side for correct intonation, which indicates that the scale length could be off.

I'm hoping this could be viable solution (as opposed to buying a new neck), since I actually have no problems with the neck itself.

Sounds like you've got a good plan going there.

Yeah, that should solve your saddle location issue just fine. Was the neck on another body at some point?

[UlricvonCatalyst]

Here are a couple photos of the pickups. They look like older black bobbin pickups to me, but they have been re-wound in a way that doesn't extend the wire out to the edge like it should be, like the Japanese reissue pickups. I plan to replace these at some point down the road. They sound OK, but are quieter than my Squier Jag Classic Vibe 70s stock pickups.

As no-one else has chimed in on these I can confirm that they appear to be Japanese JM pickups. There are plenty of options out there for more authentic-sounding ones.

[Pavol Stromcek]

Was the neck on another body at some point?

Yes, it was not a new neck when I got it. I remember it had some visible fret wear and other signs of use.

But it was on a different (Japanese reissue) Jazzmaster body, which I briefly acquired from the same guitar shop I mentioned earlier. I asked them if they could put the neck and the red fake-tort pickguard from the Japanese one onto the older US body (which then had a lousy generic neck and a black newer pickguard), and they did, but then downplayed how poorly they fit, and I was too busy and naive (and poor!) back then to press them on it and keep pursuing the matter.

[Pavol Stromcek]

As no-one else has chimed in on these I can confirm that they appear to be Japanese JM pickups. There are plenty of options out there for more authentic-sounding ones.

Thanks, that's good to know. In pictures I've seen, the Japanese JM pickups look a bit thicker than mine (that is, the mid section with the wiring), so I wasn't sure. But the wiring sure looks like the Japanese ones.

I definitely want to replace them. Their output seems kind of low to me.

[GilmourD]

As no-one else has chimed in on these I can confirm that they appear to be Japanese JM pickups. There are plenty of options out there for more authentic-sounding ones.

Thanks, that's good to know. In pictures I've seen, the Japanese JM pickups look a bit thicker than mine (that is, the mid section with the wiring), so I wasn't sure. But the wiring sure looks like the Japanese ones.

I definitely want to replace them. Their output seems kind of low to me.

There's SO MANY good options. I'm stupidly happy with the Sunday Handwound sets I have (a custom '59-inspired set Tim wound me for Jazzmaster, Woodies for Jazzmaster, and Wandas for Jaguar). Curtis Novak is also killing it with his winds. People seem to like the Black Bobbins that Lollar makes, too.