Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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tremelo68
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Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by tremelo68 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:26 pm

Hi everyone. Hoping for some expert input here. Purportedly a 61 neck and 60s body with 65 pickups and harness. I see 61 on the neck and 60 in the body and 65 on the pots.

Can you all take a look and help me verify the dates and/or if there is any funny business going on? The headstock was broken and nicely repaired, though the decal is a low quality replacement. The tuners are modern replacements, as are the bridge and knobs.

Vibrato looks vintage to me, though not Pat Pending… should it be for a 61?

Slab board, clay dots, re-fretted. Curved bottom bone nut.

Thimbles for bridge look older and different than modern.

Plays and sounds sweet.

I don't see a way to attach photos on this draft, so here is an iCloud share.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/089GvCX ... bdAARDb_Ow

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by johnnysomersett » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:14 pm

tremelo68 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:26 pm

Vibrato looks vintage to me, though not Pat Pending… should it be for a 61?

Thimbles for bridge look older and different than modern.
The screws on the vibrato (where the strings rub) should have flattened tops I believe. All my old ones do/had

Thimbles were originally that tall. Looks legit to me.

Was it originally sunburst? Looks like it might have spent some part of its life varnished.
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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by Highnumbers » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:59 pm

Looks pretty good! It’s an assembly of different parts, not sure that all of them came from the same guitar (even aside from the pickups).

I believe the switch from Pat Pending to Pat number trem did happen in late ‘61. But perhaps the body is earlier than the ‘61 parts, going by that body date?

The screws in the trem look original to me, they were round head machine screws with a very subtle flat peak on top (which is visible in the photos).

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by johnnysomersett » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:38 pm

Highnumbers wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:59 pm
The screws in the trem look original to me, they were round head machine screws with a very subtle flat peak on top (which is visible in the photos).
You're right actually...I just went and had another look at mine and it's a lot more subtle than I remembered
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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by marginwalker » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:09 pm

Sweet guitar!! I remember I was just about to pull the trigger on it when I saw that someone put an offer while I was at work and it sold an hour later lol. How much lower were you able to get down from their asking price?

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by eggwheat » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:13 am

tremelo68 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:26 pm

Vibrato looks vintage to me, though not Pat Pending… should it be for a 61?
Looks correct for 61. No pat pend on 61.

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by bulrich » Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:03 pm

A few things to note. The taller thimbles lasted until about 62 when the Jaguar was released. The Jags mute required thimbles be flush with the pick guard. So mid 62 you see the new thimbles.

Pat Pend tremolo's lasted until about 63. I had a 63 JM with one. I'm not sure there is a clear cutoff date as both were likely mixed up in the parts bin.

Sweet guitar. I bet that neck plays great.

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by 46346 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:00 pm

i've seen Pat Pend *and* patent number trem plates on 1961's.
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.

agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.

glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!

congrats!
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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by 46346 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:01 pm

i've seen Pat Pend *and* patent number trem plates on 1961's.
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.

agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.

glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!

congrats!
Dream Apes, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Cat Museum, Cooling Time

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by eggwheat » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am

Yes so have I ...the question was 'should it be for a '61'?' Answer: No it shouldn't be for a '61. Plenty of 61's dont have pat pend tremolos.

As for 62-63. No doubt there are outliers...but it's extremely rare to see...check reverb now for all the 62-63 Jazzmasters with pat pend tremolos on them and tell me how many you find.

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by tremelo68 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:14 pm

Thanks for all the advice and help. Appreciate it. Just added a Stew Mac shim (1 degree) and raised the bridge (it was bottomed put on the thimbles) and am able to give it a really nice action. Flipped the tow outside vibrato screws too just to lessen the chance of string breakage (high E already broke once at the wrap).

Adjusted the action and bridge radius and bridge pickup height.

I’m calling it a 60-61 mutt with 65 pups and living with it. Down the road I’ll search for vintage parts to bring it closer to original.

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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by johnnysomersett » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:56 pm

tremelo68 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:14 pm
I’m calling it a 60-61 mutt with 65 pups and living with it. Down the road I’ll search for vintage parts to bring it closer to original.
Pretty much every Fender built is a 'mutt' depending on how deep they dug into the parts buckets and what time of year it was built....I wouldn't sweat it at all. Maybe the pickups, sure, but you're onto a hiding to nothing trying to get every single part to line up in date...not even Fender bothered with that when building them :D
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Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)

Post by 46346 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:08 am

eggwheat wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am
Yes so have I ...the question was 'should it be for a '61'?' Answer: No it shouldn't be for a '61. Plenty of 61's dont have pat pend tremolos.

As for 62-63. No doubt there are outliers...but it's extremely rare to see...check reverb now for all the 62-63 Jazzmasters with pat pend tremolos on them and tell me how many you find.

Oh - of course! i totally misread the question, and couldn’t see the fotos.

i thought his plate *is* a Pat. Pend.

agree that the majority of 61’s would not carry the PP trem.
and that seeing one any later gets a little suspicious.
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