Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
- tremelo68
- PAT PEND
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:35 am
Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Hi everyone. Hoping for some expert input here. Purportedly a 61 neck and 60s body with 65 pickups and harness. I see 61 on the neck and 60 in the body and 65 on the pots.
Can you all take a look and help me verify the dates and/or if there is any funny business going on? The headstock was broken and nicely repaired, though the decal is a low quality replacement. The tuners are modern replacements, as are the bridge and knobs.
Vibrato looks vintage to me, though not Pat Pending… should it be for a 61?
Slab board, clay dots, re-fretted. Curved bottom bone nut.
Thimbles for bridge look older and different than modern.
Plays and sounds sweet.
I don't see a way to attach photos on this draft, so here is an iCloud share.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/089GvCX ... bdAARDb_Ow
Can you all take a look and help me verify the dates and/or if there is any funny business going on? The headstock was broken and nicely repaired, though the decal is a low quality replacement. The tuners are modern replacements, as are the bridge and knobs.
Vibrato looks vintage to me, though not Pat Pending… should it be for a 61?
Slab board, clay dots, re-fretted. Curved bottom bone nut.
Thimbles for bridge look older and different than modern.
Plays and sounds sweet.
I don't see a way to attach photos on this draft, so here is an iCloud share.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/089GvCX ... bdAARDb_Ow
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8963
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
The screws on the vibrato (where the strings rub) should have flattened tops I believe. All my old ones do/had
Thimbles were originally that tall. Looks legit to me.
Was it originally sunburst? Looks like it might have spent some part of its life varnished.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- Highnumbers
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 628
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:21 am
- Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Looks pretty good! It’s an assembly of different parts, not sure that all of them came from the same guitar (even aside from the pickups).
I believe the switch from Pat Pending to Pat number trem did happen in late ‘61. But perhaps the body is earlier than the ‘61 parts, going by that body date?
The screws in the trem look original to me, they were round head machine screws with a very subtle flat peak on top (which is visible in the photos).
I believe the switch from Pat Pending to Pat number trem did happen in late ‘61. But perhaps the body is earlier than the ‘61 parts, going by that body date?
The screws in the trem look original to me, they were round head machine screws with a very subtle flat peak on top (which is visible in the photos).
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8963
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
You're right actually...I just went and had another look at mine and it's a lot more subtle than I rememberedHighnumbers wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:59 pmThe screws in the trem look original to me, they were round head machine screws with a very subtle flat peak on top (which is visible in the photos).
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- marginwalker
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:06 pm
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Sweet guitar!! I remember I was just about to pull the trigger on it when I saw that someone put an offer while I was at work and it sold an hour later lol. How much lower were you able to get down from their asking price?
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:30 am
- bulrich
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:22 am
- Location: Providence, RI
- Contact:
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
A few things to note. The taller thimbles lasted until about 62 when the Jaguar was released. The Jags mute required thimbles be flush with the pick guard. So mid 62 you see the new thimbles.
Pat Pend tremolo's lasted until about 63. I had a 63 JM with one. I'm not sure there is a clear cutoff date as both were likely mixed up in the parts bin.
Sweet guitar. I bet that neck plays great.
Pat Pend tremolo's lasted until about 63. I had a 63 JM with one. I'm not sure there is a clear cutoff date as both were likely mixed up in the parts bin.
Sweet guitar. I bet that neck plays great.
- 46346
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2831
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am
- Location: echo ECHO park PARK
- Contact:
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
i've seen Pat Pend *and* patent number trem plates on 1961's.
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.
agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.
glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!
congrats!
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.
agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.
glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!
congrats!
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks
- 46346
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2831
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am
- Location: echo ECHO park PARK
- Contact:
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
i've seen Pat Pend *and* patent number trem plates on 1961's.
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.
agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.
glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!
congrats!
it was likely a broad transition, like bulrich noted.
the associated hardware looks fine to me, too.
agree with johnny, it appears to have been originally sunburst.
glad to hear it plays and sounds good. i believe it!
congrats!
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:30 am
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Yes so have I ...the question was 'should it be for a '61'?' Answer: No it shouldn't be for a '61. Plenty of 61's dont have pat pend tremolos.
As for 62-63. No doubt there are outliers...but it's extremely rare to see...check reverb now for all the 62-63 Jazzmasters with pat pend tremolos on them and tell me how many you find.
As for 62-63. No doubt there are outliers...but it's extremely rare to see...check reverb now for all the 62-63 Jazzmasters with pat pend tremolos on them and tell me how many you find.
- tremelo68
- PAT PEND
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:35 am
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Thanks for all the advice and help. Appreciate it. Just added a Stew Mac shim (1 degree) and raised the bridge (it was bottomed put on the thimbles) and am able to give it a really nice action. Flipped the tow outside vibrato screws too just to lessen the chance of string breakage (high E already broke once at the wrap).
Adjusted the action and bridge radius and bridge pickup height.
I’m calling it a 60-61 mutt with 65 pups and living with it. Down the road I’ll search for vintage parts to bring it closer to original.
Adjusted the action and bridge radius and bridge pickup height.
I’m calling it a 60-61 mutt with 65 pups and living with it. Down the road I’ll search for vintage parts to bring it closer to original.
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8963
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
Pretty much every Fender built is a 'mutt' depending on how deep they dug into the parts buckets and what time of year it was built....I wouldn't sweat it at all. Maybe the pickups, sure, but you're onto a hiding to nothing trying to get every single part to line up in date...not even Fender bothered with that when building them
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- 46346
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2831
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am
- Location: echo ECHO park PARK
- Contact:
Re: Help dating a Jazzmaster (61?)
eggwheat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 amYes so have I ...the question was 'should it be for a '61'?' Answer: No it shouldn't be for a '61. Plenty of 61's dont have pat pend tremolos.
As for 62-63. No doubt there are outliers...but it's extremely rare to see...check reverb now for all the 62-63 Jazzmasters with pat pend tremolos on them and tell me how many you find.
Oh - of course! i totally misread the question, and couldn’t see the fotos.
i thought his plate *is* a Pat. Pend.
agree that the majority of 61’s would not carry the PP trem.
and that seeing one any later gets a little suspicious.
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks