Messed up nut change in JMJM...

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wotsch
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Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Tue May 10, 2022 2:02 pm

Hey there,
my first ever nut change on my JMJM didn't go too well, see the pictures... Any ideas how to touch up what I messed up? Too hide as most oft my fault as possible.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/woetscher/?

I hope this link works! Thanks for your help!!!

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Larry Mal
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 10, 2022 2:31 pm

Ouch, Walter! Do you have the broken wood piece that came off the guitar?
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Scout » Tue May 10, 2022 5:20 pm

Hopefully you saved the broken piece. The repair is probably beyond your skillset but you've gone this far.
You still need to remove the nut , vertically this time by grasping with proper pliers and rocking it out.
Glue the missing fretboard piece back in and fill in any missing slivers with appropriate dust and glue.
Scrape and file the nut slot back to the original size and buy/make a new nut. Not impossible but not super easy.
Be happy that it was yours and not a vintage JM.

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wotsch
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Tue May 10, 2022 10:16 pm

Thanks for the fast replies! The first picture shows the chipped of pieces of the fretboard glued back on, but there are small pieces missing and some lacquer as well.

Maybe a stupid question, but where could I get some rosewood dust? Ask a carpenter?

I got me a Squier JMJM for my first steps in guitar modding, for good, as it seems. But I still play this guitar and want to treat it well and have it in the best shape possible.

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Scout » Wed May 11, 2022 3:27 am

PM me your address, I’ll mail you a scrap of rosewood. Chris

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wotsch
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Wed May 11, 2022 7:00 am

Thanks for the kind offer, but I live in Austria, and I suppose you're US-based... And sending a scrap of rosewood across the ocean seems a little overwhelming!

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Axolotl » Wed May 11, 2022 7:43 am

The nuts on the JMJMs are glued really strong! I had my tech change two of them and he had a hell of a time taking them off. Good luck with the repair!

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Scout » Wed May 11, 2022 9:28 am

You may have find a kind luthier to give you a scrap . :)

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by bipedal2 » Thu May 12, 2022 7:17 am

Good luck with this. Must be a JMJM thing?

I recently had a local shop replace the stock nut on my JMJM with a bone nut. Final result is all good, but the nut shelf broke in the process of removing the original nut; I didn't see photos, but I suspect it was similar to wotsch's situation. They reconstructed with existing parts, "filled a small gap with amber stew mac 20 and sanded through the grits to match sheen".

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by Bradley-Jazz » Thu May 12, 2022 9:12 am

If you can’t easily find a luthier who can give you a rosewood scrap, you could buy a rosewood acoustic guitar end pin or violin tuning peg - might be more readily mail-order-able!

Something like this? https://caswells-strings.co.uk/product/ ... uning-peg/

I’ve bought a cheap ebony end pin in the past to sand into dust to repair an acoustic bridge and it worked fine.
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by timtam » Thu May 12, 2022 9:35 pm

Sorry about your problem. The common quest for bone nuts I think is sometimes overblown. Most modern stock nuts are made of synthetic materials that I believe perform as well, and sometimes better than bone (bone material can be inconsistent). If a nut is broken or the slots cut/worn too low, by all means replace the stock nut (and maybe with a synthetic one). But otherwise I think there is rarely a really good case for getting a new/bone nut. Plus Fender nuts need to be removed very carefully (even though they should have absolutely minimal glue), and not all techs do that well.

Here's luthier Jonny Kinkade removing a Fender nut as well as filling rosewood holes. Some of his other techniques are perhaps rather "old school", but in his long-experienced hands they obviously work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONCCSdA9Ds
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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by jvin248 » Fri May 13, 2022 4:07 am

.

You watched the youtube videos where they hammer off the nut ... if you look, those are the Gibson style nuts that have no wood on the tuner side of them. The Fender style nuts are best removed with a saw cut down the middle lengthwise and then collapse the sides into the saw cut kerf with pliers for easy removal. The fret side of the nut slot is the most important surface in the guitar because if that is damaged then all your frets will be out of tune.

However, swapping nuts is an overdone and as you've seen very risky endeavor. They are a popular mod because 'hey that new nut is only $5 and the Internet Forums say it really improves the tone so why not'. It's a very dangerous mod! I've bought a lot of guitars cheap because nuts were 'upgraded' incorrectly. The Internet Forums place so much focus on tone improvement of the nuts while the modders often put new strings on the guitar after swapping nuts and of course the new strings sound fantastic compared to the dirty old strings they removed - the tone improvement was not the nut but the strings...

Set the nut slots on the factory nut carefully/correctly and use dry graphite lock-lube to cut friction at the nut and other points. Graphite impregnated nuts tend to be soft and the strings dig in resulting in more stickiness tuning problems when using the trem.

.

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Sat May 14, 2022 10:49 am

Bradley-Jazz wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 9:12 am
If you can’t easily find a luthier who can give you a rosewood scrap, you could buy a rosewood acoustic guitar end pin or violin tuning peg - might be more readily mail-order-able!

Something like this? https://caswells-strings.co.uk/product/ ... uning-peg/

I’ve bought a cheap ebony end pin in the past to sand into dust to repair an acoustic bridge and it worked fine.
Wow, thanks a lot, I never would have thought about this option! I'm sure I can get one of these to sand down!

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Sat May 14, 2022 10:53 am

timtam wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 9:35 pm
Sorry about your problem. The common quest for bone nuts I think is sometimes overblown. Most modern stock nuts are made of synthetic materials that I believe perform as well, and sometimes better than bone (bone material can be inconsistent). If a nut is broken or the slots cut/worn too low, by all means replace the stock nut (and maybe with a synthetic one). But otherwise I think there is rarely a really good case for getting a new/bone nut. Plus Fender nuts need to be removed very carefully (even though they should have absolutely minimal glue), and not all techs do that well.

Here's luthier Jonny Kinkade removing a Fender nut as well as filling rosewood holes. Some of his other techniques are perhaps rather "old school", but in his long-experienced hands they obviously work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONCCSdA9Ds
Thanks, man! I believe that I read that the nut on a JMJM is made of plastic and I wanted to replace it with a one made of TUSQ - I'm not a fan of bone nuts either or think they are absolutely neccessary game/tone changers.

And I thought " how hard can it be to change the nut..."

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Re: Messed up nut change in JMJM...

Post by wotsch » Sat May 14, 2022 10:54 am

bipedal2 wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 7:17 am
Good luck with this. Must be a JMJM thing?

I recently had a local shop replace the stock nut on my JMJM with a bone nut. Final result is all good, but the nut shelf broke in the process of removing the original nut; I didn't see photos, but I suspect it was similar to wotsch's situation. They reconstructed with existing parts, "filled a small gap with amber stew mac 20 and sanded through the grits to match sheen".
Good to hear that it's a common problem with JMJMs... Mine was glued in like hell! Easier to get out after the shelf broke off :(

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