'65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by smjenkins » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:30 am

ThatGuyOverThere wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:19 am
bessieboporbach wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:20 am
It just looks like somebody rested it on something and it made an impression in the nitro?

Not sure why this is a big mystery.
But it’s a FUN mystery. I’m getting a kick out of this journey, both here and on TGP. Please do post what you find out!
Agree. This has been one of the most compelling OSG threads for me in the last couple days. MOAR MYSTERY PLEASE!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by HNB » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 am

Maybe someone had paper on the back and was drawing and it made an impression in the finish? Not sure why someone would use the back of a guitar like a table, but that could do it.
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Steadyriot. » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm

HNB wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 am
Maybe someone had paper on the back and was drawing and it made an impression in the finish? Not sure why someone would use the back of a guitar like a table, but that could do it.
Yeah my thoughts too, OP are you sure the image is beneath the finish and not an imprint in the finish itself?
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Fiddy » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:06 pm

This is a great looking guitar either way. Lion or no lion.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by jfromel » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:08 pm

ThatGuyOverThere wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:19 am
bessieboporbach wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:20 am
It just looks like somebody rested it on something and it made an impression in the nitro?

Not sure why this is a big mystery.
But it’s a FUN mystery. I’m getting a kick out of this journey, both here and on TGP. Please do post what you find out!
I sent the pics of the image to my rep at Fender, here is the reply....

Hey John,

 Woah!! That’s crazy!

 I have added in Tech Support to run this down and see if there is any info we can find on it.

 Stay tuned, as we are extremely busy.

Many thanks!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by N0_Camping4U » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:31 pm

Hey, you weren't lion - it sure looks like a .... wait.


Okay I'll see myself out.


...But that thing is rad!
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by jfromel » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:08 pm

Steadyriot. wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm
HNB wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 am
Maybe someone had paper on the back and was drawing and it made an impression in the finish? Not sure why someone would use the back of a guitar like a table, but that could do it.
Yeah my thoughts too, OP are you sure the image is beneath the finish and not an imprint in the finish itself?
I'm not sure it's under the finish but that is what it looks like to me and I sure as hell am not going to sand it down to find out! If it was done by impressing something into the finish it was a masterful application, the depth of the impression is completely uniform and there are no signs of tooling at all. And why press that into a finish and just let it hide there? So many questions, this has been fun!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:51 pm

This is so cool. The mystery of the dragon master

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Johnny Alien » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:14 am

If it was under the finish then the back would be smooth and I am not sure how the graphite trick would have exposed the design. The only way that would work is if the finish itself was indented. Accidental or on purpose that was done after the guitar was finished and doubtful was done at Fender.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by jfromel » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:44 am

Johnny Alien wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:14 am
If it was under the finish then the back would be smooth and I am not sure how the graphite trick would have exposed the design. The only way that would work is if the finish itself was indented. Accidental or on purpose that was done after the guitar was finished and doubtful was done at Fender.
Not necessarily, if there was a slight depression left after the impression was planed off to spec prior to finish it would show through a thin nitro, If it was dipped in thick poly I think the image would be imperceptible. The depth of the impression is .03mm that's a little less than the thickness of thermal printing paper or about 1/1000 of an inch. My judgement is still out on the origin, I can't imagine Fender doing it and I also cant imagine doing it after finish in such an invisible way. That's a lot of work for visual art that can't be seen. I have some other eyes on it and Fender is researching it as well. I'll keep updating if I hear anything.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:36 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:17 pm
jfromel wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:03 am
I certainly don't want to clear coat over this rare bird and make it a re-fin.
Sorry to be the fun police but I think it already is (a refin)?

Unless the colour balance is off, that's a very bright white. Also - matching headstock is non-original.


My guess is it was carved into the back, later levelled/filled with some kind of wood-filler prior to being refinished, and the fillter has since shrunk just enough to allow the design to be 'seen'.
The white AV65s had matching headstocks

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by DeathJag » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:36 am

This had better be solved man, I don’t want to die never knowing this story!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Johnny Alien » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:31 am

Going through Fender is the wrong path. It didnt happen at the factory. If there was any special run or one off like this the serial number would have turned it up or a google search would return something. This is a mod by an owner either intentionally or by accident. Your only option to getting details is to try and track down a prior owner.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by jfromel » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:37 am

Johnny Alien wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:31 am
Going through Fender is the wrong path. It didnt happen at the factory. If there was any special run or one off like this the serial number would have turned it up or a google search would return something. This is a mod by an owner either intentionally or by accident. Your only option to getting details is to try and track down a prior owner.
I'm working on tracking down the previous owner(s) as well. I think Fender could be a big help in solving the mystery. Fender knows who they shipped the guitar to originally, perhaps they will be willing to share, until then I am working backwards trying to find the person who owned it when they traded it in at GC.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by bessieboporbach » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:58 am

jfromel wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:37 am
Johnny Alien wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:31 am
Going through Fender is the wrong path. It didnt happen at the factory. If there was any special run or one off like this the serial number would have turned it up or a google search would return something. This is a mod by an owner either intentionally or by accident. Your only option to getting details is to try and track down a prior owner.
I'm working on tracking down the previous owner(s) as well. I think Fender could be a big help in solving the mystery. Fender knows who they shipped the guitar to originally, perhaps they will be willing to share, until then I am working backwards trying to find the person who owned it when they traded it in at GC.
If the guitar was shipped directly from Fender to a customer, it would be illegal to disclose that information to you. It's also probably illegal for GC to tell you who traded it in without a warrant.

I think you're hoping to find out that this guitar is more exotic than it is. It's just a nice, high-end production model that one of the owners did something to. I still think the simplest explanation is the most reasonable, i.e. that somebody leaned the guitar against something (maybe an ornately carved desk or chair) and it made a shallow impression in the nitro.

I don't believe it's been refinned and I think there's zero chance it came out of the factory looking like this. The various complicated ideas advanced in this thread involving it being carved then filled in then repainted seem needless. It is NOT hard to make an impression In a nitro finish, especially a 'thin' nitro finish. I have a mandolin that has a permanent belt buckle impression in the back simply because I played it a few yards from a campfire for a couple of hours.

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