Which Rat....?????

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ElephantDNA
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by ElephantDNA » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:52 pm

del wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:05 am
Any Rat is a good first Rat.
I'll vote for the least expensive one - or the one that looks the coolest.
Vintage Rats are special for collecting because they are old or rare or, more frequently, because they beat up and look super-cool-rough but are still working perfectly. I don't think they sound distinctly different beyond (as the previously posted JHS video demonstrates) tolerances within components that make matching settings a tiny bit tricky.

All the simple mods and turbos and whatnot can be awesome, but they are variants on base Rat-iness, which anyone should try out first. The more dramatic mods are just turning a Rat into a not-a-Rat.

I have two Rats that I love, but am only using them occasionally right now (I'm on a fuzz face kick!). With those, I would often run them both in my pedal chain: one as the first pedal with "distortion" set low (which is delightfully fuzzy on a Rat), and the other as the second-to-last pedal with "distortion" set medium (which is a toothy, churny sound). This follows the model set by, I think, KG in SY and GC in Blur.

I hope this is helpful!
~del
Ha yeah I saw an interview with GC where he said everyone would always tell him he was using the rat "wrong" because it was set to lower gain. When I used to play it back in the stone ages before you could find that kind of stuff out, I actually used it the same way. :D

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by dc » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:12 pm

Guitar Pedal X just did a big rundown of the current crop of mini-Rats:

https://www.guitarpedalx.com/news/gpx-b ... ion-pedals
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by Sauerkraut » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:51 am

dc wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:12 pm
Guitar Pedal X just did a big rundown of the current crop of mini-Rats:

https://www.guitarpedalx.com/news/gpx-b ... ion-pedals
I don't know any of these except for the Black Secret. If I built a mini-board, it'd definitely be on there. When I compared it to my '86 Rat, it was somewhat in the ballpark, but noisier and fizzier. For the money, the Black Secret is great though.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by jorri » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:08 am

Sauerkraut wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:51 am
dc wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:12 pm
Guitar Pedal X just did a big rundown of the current crop of mini-Rats:

https://www.guitarpedalx.com/news/gpx-b ... ion-pedals
I don't know any of these except for the Black Secret. If I built a mini-board, it'd definitely be on there. When I compared it to my '86 Rat, it was somewhat in the ballpark, but noisier and fizzier. For the money, the Black Secret is great though.

I had a black secret too. Another one with an added buffer afaik (when the pedal is ON). This makes it tighter and more suitable for clearer distortions. But may make the lower gain sounds even icepickier and lack nuance compared to my BYOC (basically vintage rat with clipping options). The rat has very high impedance and dramatically changes when buffered or stacked.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by Arthon » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:42 am

jagstang wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:14 am
I really dig the ehx flatiron fuzz. Mike Matthews try of a rat...

Image
Like mine too. Great pedal. Bought it for recording. Never made a side-by-side comparaison so I dont know how similar it sound to a real RAT.
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(sorry for the spelling, I speak french)

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by sunburster » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:28 pm

fuzzjunkie wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:00 am

The guy behind the counter yelled out “Sounds like a RAT!”

Yes, it does. I guess I am not a connoisseur, but a RAT sounds like a RAT.
I never wanted another one besides that big box version and still have it. It does what it says on the tin. It sounds like a RAT. I used it as an overdrive to Marshall up my AC-30. Gives it a nice crunch. I almost never dime it because that still sounds too much like a hair metal solo to me and I don’t have a Floyd Rose.

Built by “The Woodchopper” if you are a connoisseur.
You can say that about any kind of pedal, really. "Sounds like a Hall reverb!", "Sounds like a Tubescreamer!", etc. But as is always the case, there are noticeable differences among the many versions and variations. I have two RAT clones on my board (Foxpedal Wrath V2 and Big Ear Woodcutter), and both sound very different. I stack them together because I like the way their harmonics affect each other. I tried to just make do with one of the two, but I ended up missing that complex harmonic distortion you get with the two stacked, and I also like the way each sounds on its own.

Proco RATs from different years also sound different. And a Turbo RAT sounds quite different from a standard RAT. And so on, and so forth.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by Jaguar018 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:53 am

sunburster wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:28 pm
Proco RATs from different years also sound different. And a Turbo RAT sounds quite different from a standard RAT. And so on, and so forth.
Rats are like the pizza of pedals I think even more than Tube Screamers and Muffs. You can have the artisanal brick oven version, delivery from twenty different places, the 'authentic' Italian ones, drunk giant slices, regional variations (NY, Chicago, etc.) frozen, pre-made, homemade, and probably some others. Generally most people will identify the variations under the basic definition of 'pizza' and then we can all argue about which is better and why, while others (the filthy casuals) won't really care either way as long as it's cheap. :jacked:

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by Sauerkraut » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 am

Sauerkraut wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:51 am
Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:47 am
I owned a 90s big box vintage reissue, a rat II and a turbo rat at some point in the '00s. I found the big box reissue was the best of those three. Then ten years ago I found a small box one from '86 for €85. I believe the hype now, it beat all the other ones. It's by far the best distortion pedal I ever owned and it's not going anywhere.
After watching this video, I'm now doubting the hype and ordering a new Rat. If it's really as good as/identical to my old one, I'm just gonna sell my '86. Like a sensible person.
So in the end I never sold the '86 Rat. I bought a Reuss Swiss Army Knife (Rat + Klon clone in one), thinking I'll sell the Rat, but after hours of comparing and tweaking and testing I ended up keeping both. The Reuss' Rat clone is great and it gets very close, but it's just not quite as good as the original to my ears. With the old Rat, no matter how I set the knobs, it just always sounds great, while with the Reuss I need to tweak and fine-tune to get there. It's a little more nasty/grimey, less creamy? I don't know how to describe it, but the difference is there, however small. The old one's super transparent too. I fell in love all over again. The main reason I'm keeping the Reuss is because its Klon clone is fantastic, I even prefer it to a Tumnus Wampler (less nasal), plus it's still got a good Rat and it's a super practical pedal to have around.

In short, I'd like to rejoin the 80s-Rats-are-magic camp. Sorry for ever doubting my Rat.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by s_mcsleazy » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:33 am

sunburster wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:28 pm


Proco RATs from different years also sound different. And a Turbo RAT sounds quite different from a standard RAT. And so on, and so forth.
this. honestly, me and my bandmate noticed that i own 6 different rat pedals and NONE of them sound alike. they're all in the same ballpark but they all sound a little different. the rat i keep coming back to is my rat II. it's an early slant box rat and it sounds so special to me. i bought another rat from the same year and it sounded kind of wrong to me.
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by JSett » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am

In 1995 I went into my local pawn shop with £45 to spend. I walked out with a Bespeco Weeper Wah and a flat-box Rat.

I still have that exact Rat on my pedalboard. It's been a bit modified and back to stock then modded again. Pretty sure it just has the Reutz mod these days but I can't remember. I, personally, think it sounds amazing and every other Rat I've bought has sounded inferior to my ears.

I'll never sell it
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:40 am

Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 am
Sauerkraut wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:51 am
Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:47 am
I owned a 90s big box vintage reissue, a rat II and a turbo rat at some point in the '00s. I found the big box reissue was the best of those three. Then ten years ago I found a small box one from '86 for €85. I believe the hype now, it beat all the other ones. It's by far the best distortion pedal I ever owned and it's not going anywhere.
After watching this video, I'm now doubting the hype and ordering a new Rat. If it's really as good as/identical to my old one, I'm just gonna sell my '86. Like a sensible person.
So in the end I never sold the '86 Rat. I bought a Reuss Swiss Army Knife (Rat + Klon clone in one), thinking I'll sell the Rat, but after hours of comparing and tweaking and testing I ended up keeping both. The Reuss' Rat clone is great and it gets very close, but it's just not quite as good as the original to my ears. With the old Rat, no matter how I set the knobs, it just always sounds great, while with the Reuss I need to tweak and fine-tune to get there. It's a little more nasty/grimey, less creamy? I don't know how to describe it, but the difference is there, however small. The old one's super transparent too. I fell in love all over again. The main reason I'm keeping the Reuss is because its Klon clone is fantastic, I even prefer it to a Tumnus Wampler (less nasal), plus it's still got a good Rat and it's a super practical pedal to have around.

In short, I'd like to rejoin the 80s-Rats-are-magic camp. Sorry for ever doubting my Rat.
Thanks for the Swiss Army Knife review.

As a Klone and Rat user myself I just don’t like the sound of the two stacked, and demos of this pedal haven’t changed my mind on that. If the switching were configurable on this I’d be all in.

As it is I keep the Archer and my Chicago Stompworks Rat clone side by side on the board. With switch toppers on both I can switch one off and the other on at the same time pretty reliably with one foot.

If I had the board space I’d add an A/B loop switcher, but I don’t.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:22 am

I love the fact that they're absolutely brilliant distortion pedals in their own right, but also very good fuzz pedals.
But...and heres the kicker...only good enough to make you realise that you should also have a really good fuzz pedal!

I bought a late 80s ProCo RAT 2 from Justin (daydreamdelay) years ago & it's still my go-to dirt pedal.
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by JSett » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:26 pm

PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:22 am
I love the fact that they're absolutely brilliant distortion pedals in their own right, but also very good fuzz pedals.
But...and heres the kicker...only good enough to make you realise that you should also have a really good fuzz pedal!

I bought a late 80s ProCo RAT 2 from Justin (daydreamdelay) years ago & it's still my go-to dirt pedal.
For the longest time the only fuzz I ever used was an Ampeg Scrambler (90's reissue or Fredrik FX) but it is a very specific sound that's, frankly, pretty unmusical - but suited my brand of noise perfectly. I've moved away from it now and still haven't quite found what I'm looking for in a 'daily' fuzz, if that makes sense. I have an old Boss FZ-2 on my board at the moment as I love the splattery Shin-Ei sound but again it's a pretty specific sound that's not particularly versatile.

I guess I'll likely end up with some kind of Big Muff-based pedal as I'm a teenager of the 90's and 'that' sound is in etched into my brain.
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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by Jonesie » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:18 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:26 pm
PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:22 am
I love the fact that they're absolutely brilliant distortion pedals in their own right, but also very good fuzz pedals.
But...and heres the kicker...only good enough to make you realise that you should also have a really good fuzz pedal!

I bought a late 80s ProCo RAT 2 from Justin (daydreamdelay) years ago & it's still my go-to dirt pedal.
For the longest time the only fuzz I ever used was an Ampeg Scrambler (90's reissue or Fredrik FX) but it is a very specific sound that's, frankly, pretty unmusical - but suited my brand of noise perfectly. I've moved away from it now and still haven't quite found what I'm looking for in a 'daily' fuzz, if that makes sense. I have an old Boss FZ-2 on my board at the moment as I love the splattery Shin-Ei sound but again it's a pretty specific sound that's not particularly versatile.

I guess I'll likely end up with some kind of Big Muff-based pedal as I'm a teenager of the 90's and 'that' sound is in etched into my brain.
Ever messed around with a Big Cheese / Big Cheese Clone? They're kinda a usable / sputtery thing. Not great for chords, but really cool for leads.

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Re: Which Rat....?????

Post by sunburster » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:18 pm

I fell in love with the sound of a Boss OD-2R in Turbo Mode running into a Big Ear Woodcutter (RAT clone). So good. Sold off my Wrath V2 due to this. Plus, the OD-2R sounds better in low-medium gain settings too, as an overdrive.

RATs are decent fuzzes in a pinch, but they can't compete with a Big Muff-style fuzz, in my opinion. The Muff just has a much fuller, bassier sound. The RAT cuts more, like a knife. I have both on my board.

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