Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

[andy_tchp]

Mike and Mike's Guitar Bar is currently selling a mid 60s refin Jaguar that does not have the original pickups (I think it has Lollars) for $5000.

It gets worse...

https://www.mmguitarbar.com/listing/196 ... e/38099187

Oh my god:

"A custom color example, this guitar is extremely original save for a body-only nitro lacquer refinish back to the original color, matching the headstock face which retains its original Olympic White gloss."

A little misleading there, no? I'd say it's no longer a custom color once it's been refinished "Extremely original except for the most important thing"

I mean, honestly, it's original or not. No such thing as 'extremely original'. Radical, bro!

Haha, oh, but it comes with a photo of the first, sorry, 'original' owner too - what a bargain! And those guys position themselves as 'experts' on offsets.

[Highnumbers]

WHATEVER COLOR A GUITAR USED TO BE DOES’NT MATTER ONCE IT HAS BEEN REFINISHED.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

This.

On more than one occasion I’ve seen a totally stripped ‘68 Tele with a high price tag because the seller is pointing out where it was originally a pink Paisley (or even blue Flower) model.

The only thing that made those models special is the finish. When that’s stripped it’s just another ‘68 Tele.

[alvinstraight]

The rule that is restated all over guitar forums is that a refin should be 50% of the price of an original finished vintage guitar (though I guess this primarily applies to pre-CBS/Norlin Fenders and Gibsons ).

I thought about this a bit when I bought my refinished Jaguar this summer, and in practice, this rule does not seem to apply to many offsets (yet?). Maybe partially because some are still priced low enough (say jaguars or mustangs) that you are considering a perhaps mostly original but refinished guitar against boutique builds, CS and even American production models, which may push up prices on the former.

Though of course this does not explain why someone would be willing to pay the same for a refin as for a guitar with original finish

[bterry]

yeah, refins haven’t been 50% of originals for a while, probably more like 2/3 the value. Not sure if this holds true across other models but it’s definitely not 1:1

[graceless]

Exhibit A

[smjenkins]

Exhibit A

Excellent point. I feel like both of these are overpriced though.

Are these mid-60's sunburst JMs selling for that price? As a sampling of people that are the target market for these listings, is anyone here buying a mid-60's sunburst JM at that price?

[bterry]

Yes, the market is a little inflated all around right now.

I would say a normal price for a ‘65 in excellent condition is still around $5-$6k, though. I’ve seen a few from 1963 in SB go for over $8k recently.

[smjenkins]

Yes, the market is a little inflated all around right now.

I would say a normal price for a ‘65 in excellent condition is still around $5-$6k, though. I’ve seen a few from 1963 in SB go for over $8k recently.

Thanks. $8k? Whew!

[smjenkins]

WHATEVER COLOR A GUITAR USED TO BE DOES’NT MATTER ONCE IT HAS BEEN REFINISHED.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Reverb counters with:

[graceless]

Yes, the market is a little inflated all around right now.

I would say a normal price for a ‘65 in excellent condition is still around $5-$6k, though. I’ve seen a few from 1963 in SB go for over $8k recently.

I don't have a problem paying top dollar for a 'perfect' guitar with all original specs, pedigree, and some mojo, but none of these are even approaching that.

[Highnumbers]

Exhibit A

Exhibit what? Asking prices?

Unfortunately you might as well add a zero to their prices, because it doesn't mean a thing until payment clears.

[s_mcsleazy]

i know the market has been super inflated due to covid and i kinda cant wait till it crashes and all the fuckers who think of an instrument as an "investment" realize they can't sell the guitar at even 1/2 the price they've got it listed. i think reverb is one of the worst things that's happened to the guitar market in years because everyone wants top dollar and they're like "well this one is £8000 so mines is worth £8000"

[Paul-T]

i know the market has been super inflated due to covid and i kinda cant wait till it crashes and all the fuckers who think of an instrument as an "investment" realize they can't sell the guitar at even 1/2 the price they've got it listed. i think reverb is one of the worst things that's happened to the guitar market in years because everyone wants top dollar and they're like "well this one is £8000 so mines is worth £8000"

It is a bullshitter's paradise. With its own rule, double the number of paragraphs in the description and you double the asking price.

[adamrobertt]

Meh. If Reverb didn't exist it would be the same shit on another site. The problem isn't Reverb, per se, it's the collective money-grubbing mentality of shops, sellers, and collectors.

[alvinstraight]

This may have been then one referred to before in this thread, but this is pretty extreme:

Refinished 1964 Jaguar with non-original pickups, routed, and without the original hardcase.

https://reverb.com/item/38655738-1964-f ... ist-w-case

I guess that would put a normal sunburst jaguar at around $9000?