Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

[s_mcsleazy]

I miss the days where stripped/refin/project guitars were all over the place and affordable. It doesn’t seem like that long ago you could always find on eBay refin jags for $1500 and jazzmasters for $2000. Maybe they’ve all found their way onto Reverb as “super rare one-owner all-original custom colour museum-quality pieces”.

or upsold as "player grade"

i swear the term "player grade" is marketing for "we've decided you don't deserve the good stuff. here, have a guitar that's been routed with a butter knife and pissed on by several dogs...... it's what you can afford"

[Highnumbers]

While I think that “player grade” is a bit of a misnomer (because very few people who play music for a living could pay $10k for a guitar with issues and actually gig with it), when everything that’s clean is “mint! Original! Collector guitar!” what do you call one with modifications or repairs? A “pile of shit”?

No, it all gets lumped in together as “player grade.” And that’s fine by me. I have very little interest in pristine collector pieces. I have firmly made my choice to own a handful of “player grade” guitars instead of 1-2 really pristine “collector grade” instruments.

It’s more of a classification than a marketing tactic, and I’m totally fine with that.

[Mechanical Birds]

Can someone explain how refin vintage JMs and Jags are going for MORE than original sunburst finishes? It makes absolutely no sense

No because yr right, zero fucking sense. These sellers are cretins and should be shamed

[Jaguar018]

I realized that getting beat up, badly refinished Jaguars was my 'in' to the vintage market at a price I could afford, and yes, this was more than ten or twelve years ago. I feel like those kinds of guitars are getting harder to find, as hundreds of people just like me/us already realized this. I bought and sold like five Jaguars this way. None of them were particularly remarkable, but I still think about the 'v' neck on one of them and the cool neck pickup on a different one.

I am really glad I got to satisfy my curiosity about vintage guitars, because now I don't really long for or wonder what they would be like. Of course the argument about 100% unchanged vintage examples is out there, and I have played some of those at stores, and some of them are really great.

To me, one's appreciation of vintage guitars (or other things like cars) is sort of like all of the different branches of a religion. Are you a 100% pure vintage orthodox? A reformed modder for minor changes like the bridge (original sin???), or a unitarian where if it's shaped like a Jazzmaster or a Jaguar no matter what the age or configuration you are good to go.

If you discover that you are really into the vintage mojo thing it can be really great. People think about 'all the tales' vintage guitars can tell or just enjoy the originality of it all. For me it was a little underwhelming. I found out that I was 'okay' with new stuff, or at least that I didn't want vintage gear as much as I thought I did.

[Highnumbers]

Can someone explain how refin vintage JMs and Jags are going for MORE than original sunburst finishes? It makes absolutely no sense

When that's the case, it's time to buy some reasonably priced original sunburst offsets. It says more about what a great buy those are, than it does about the price of refinished examples.

All of this has a precedent - specifically 60s Strats.

Like Jazzmasters, sunburst was the standard finish for Strats and there are a ton of them out there. But a sunburst Strat always commands more than a refinished Strat from the same year, and has done for some time. If people are paying more for refinished JMs, then buy a great sunburst example instead and know you made the smarter long-term purchase based on the Strat precedent.

[graceless]

Can someone explain how refin vintage JMs and Jags are going for MORE than original sunburst finishes? It makes absolutely no sense

When that's the case, it's time to buy some reasonably priced original sunburst offsets. It says more about what a great buy those are, than it does about the price of refinished examples.

All of this has a precedent - specifically 60s Strats.

Like Jazzmasters, sunburst was the standard finish for Strats and there are a ton of them out there. But a sunburst Strat always commands more than a refinished Strat from the same year, and has done for some time. If people are paying more for refinished JMs, then buy a great sunburst example instead and know you made the smarter long-term purchase based on the Strat precedent.

Absolutely agree, but people are actually buying the damn refins at those prices!

[Highnumbers]

Can someone explain how refin vintage JMs and Jags are going for MORE than original sunburst finishes? It makes absolutely no sense

When that's the case, it's time to buy some reasonably priced original sunburst offsets. It says more about what a great buy those are, than it does about the price of refinished examples.

All of this has a precedent - specifically 60s Strats.

Like Jazzmasters, sunburst was the standard finish for Strats and there are a ton of them out there. But a sunburst Strat always commands more than a refinished Strat from the same year, and has done for some time. If people are paying more for refinished JMs, then buy a great sunburst example instead and know you made the smarter long-term purchase based on the Strat precedent.

Absolutely agree, but people are actually buying the damn refins at those prices!

They're fools, but again.. .that's all the proof you need to buy affordable sunbursts now, because they will not always be less than the price of refins. It's a narrow window of opportunity, really.

[bterry]

Can someone explain how refin vintage JMs and Jags are going for MORE than original sunburst finishes? It makes absolutely no sense

There’s a weird psychological aspect to it, plus a not-too-insignificant taking advantage of people aspect as well, IMO.

There are a lot of newcomers to the vintage Jazzmaster and Jaguar market and many of them don’t know what to pay, honestly. Add to that the big desire for custom color Jazzmasters that are incredibly hard to come by + increasing values and a few sellers who have noticed that and you get the occasional WTF.

There are definitely a few sellers seeking out beat up or parted out old guitars and restoring/refinishing them in the most desirable custom colors and taking advantage of this. If you knew better you would never pay $7-$8k for a refin 1963 Jazzmaster in today’s market.

The thing is, after everyone shit on offsets for decades a lot of them were parted out or destroyed and now that more people are looking for them, you get a demand/supply problem. Just wait until it becomes profitable to fake Jazz/Jag parts. Jags have a way to go there but Jazzmasters are already commanding high enough prices to the point where I think we will start to see more fakes show up, and continue to see people paying weird money for funky offsets. It’s already happened to some extent in the past (fake gold guards, for example) but it will get worse.

[marqueemoon]

Yeah. Seeing a lot more “curated” vintage refins/parts guitars lately.

“A beautiful Burgandy Mist Metallic finish by So & So.”
“Bridge pickup meticulously rewound to proper vintage specs by Yadda Yadda”

[adamrobertt]

Yeah. Seeing a lot more “curated” vintage refins/parts guitars lately.

“A beautiful Burgandy Mist Metallic finish by So & So.”
“Bridge pickup meticulously rewound to proper vintage specs by Yadda Yadda”

Mike and Mike's Guitar Bar is currently selling a mid 60s refin Jaguar that does not have the original pickups (I think it has Lollars) for $5000.

[bterry]

Yeah. Seeing a lot more “curated” vintage refins/parts guitars lately.

“A beautiful Burgandy Mist Metallic finish by So & So.”
“Bridge pickup meticulously rewound to proper vintage specs by Yadda Yadda”

Mike and Mike's Guitar Bar is currently selling a mid 60s refin Jaguar that does not have the original pickups (I think it has Lollars) for $5000.

It gets worse...

https://www.mmguitarbar.com/listing/196 ... e/38099187

[marqueemoon]

WHATEVER COLOR A GUITAR USED TO BE DOES’NT MATTER ONCE IT HAS BEEN REFINISHED.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[graceless]

Yeah. Seeing a lot more “curated” vintage refins/parts guitars lately.

“A beautiful Burgandy Mist Metallic finish by So & So.”
“Bridge pickup meticulously rewound to proper vintage specs by Yadda Yadda”

Mike and Mike's Guitar Bar is currently selling a mid 60s refin Jaguar that does not have the original pickups (I think it has Lollars) for $5000.

It gets worse...

https://www.mmguitarbar.com/listing/196 ... e/38099187

Oh my god:

"A custom color example, this guitar is extremely original save for a body-only nitro lacquer refinish back to the original color, matching the headstock face which retains its original Olympic White gloss."

A little misleading there, no? I'd say it's no longer a custom color once it's been refinished "Extremely original except for the most important thing"

I mean, honestly, it's original or not. No such thing as 'extremely original'. Radical, bro!

[graceless]

More firewood

https://reverb.com/item/39035199-fender ... oject-1962

[whitewatersky]

WHATEVER COLOR A GUITAR USED TO BE DOES’NT MATTER ONCE IT HAS BEEN REFINISHED.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Niiiiiice one