School me on Tweeds

[Dr Tony Balls]

What is your price range? How much does it matter that it says “Fender” on the front? I’m sure you could get a 5e3 clone built or modded to Edge specs for way less than 2K

No price range at the moment, I’m currently building a guitar but am already planning my next venture being a quality amp purchase. So for now I’m in the early tire kicking phase. I really just want the most quality, versatile tube amp in a smallish package. I like the quality and price points of fenders blackface reissues, but I don’t want the blackface sound. I do cringe at spending more than $1500 on an amp. It just depends, ya know.

Are you looking for a head or a combo? There are lots of ways to build a proper, quality amp for less than $1500. I charge less than that for a ~50 watt head, and that's all hand-wired and custom built.

[Unicorn Warrior]

What is your price range? How much does it matter that it says “Fender” on the front? I’m sure you could get a 5e3 clone built or modded to Edge specs for way less than 2K

No price range at the moment, I’m currently building a guitar but am already planning my next venture being a quality amp purchase. So for now I’m in the early tire kicking phase. I really just want the most quality, versatile tube amp in a smallish package. I like the quality and price points of fenders blackface reissues, but I don’t want the blackface sound. I do cringe at spending more than $1500 on an amp. It just depends, ya know.

Are you looking for a head or a combo? There are lots of ways to build a proper, quality amp for less than $1500. I charge less than that for a ~50 watt head, and that's all hand-wired and custom built.

I’m a combo guy.

[Powdered Toast Man]

I've got a 5F6A Bassman, a 57 Twin RI, and a 5E3 clone. They're all different in their own way but are still in the same tonal ballpark. The big thing I guess is that they're much more mid focused than BF style amps. What you're going to want in an OD pedal is something that's really transparent. That means stay away from anything that's basically a Tubescreamer. You dont want a mid hump pedal in front of a naturally mid humped amp.

However the wonderful beauty of a Tweed is how well it cuts through a mix. I've never had any trouble hearing myself in a full band mix and I don't have to be super loud. Your guitar sounds very present and clear.

[Unicorn Warrior]

I've got a 5F6A Bassman, a 57 Twin RI, and a 5E3 clone. They're all different in their own way but are still in the same tonal ballpark. The big thing I guess is that they're much more mid focused than BF style amps. What you're going to want in an OD pedal is something that's really transparent. That means stay away from anything that's basically a Tubescreamer. You dont want a mid hump pedal in front of a naturally mid humped amp.

However the wonderful beauty of a Tweed is how well it cuts through a mix. I've never had any trouble hearing myself in a full band mix and I don't have to be super loud. Your guitar sounds very present and clear.

I’ve traditionally been a proco rat lover even for OD sounds with a vox. Any idea how a rat pairs with a tweed?

[Powdered Toast Man]

No idea, sorry.

[HarlowTheFish]

I’ve traditionally been a proco rat lover even for OD sounds with a vox. Any idea how a rat pairs with a tweed?

Sorta depends on the circuit? IMO it works best with a brighter/clearer OD/distortion. Some Rats and ways to set them up work better, some not so much, but they're pretty versatile in that regard (both the Rats and the Tweeds).

[BarnyardCoral]

What you're going to want in an OD pedal is something that's really transparent. That means stay away from anything that's basically a Tubescreamer. You dont want a mid hump pedal in front of a naturally mid humped amp.

That's only kind of true. The midrange frequency spectrum is fairly wide and your amp might be forward at one frequency range/hump but a pedal could work at a different point. Not to mention different speakers amplify or cut different frequencies too. Yes, there are very general rules to follow but you won't really know unless you try.

[Powdered Toast Man]

What you're going to want in an OD pedal is something that's really transparent. That means stay away from anything that's basically a Tubescreamer. You dont want a mid hump pedal in front of a naturally mid humped amp.

That's only kind of true. The midrange frequency spectrum is fairly wide and your amp might be forward at one frequency range/hump but a pedal could work at a different point. Not to mention different speakers amplify or cut different frequencies too. Yes, there are very general rules to follow but you won't really know unless you try.

https://youtu.be/W0Q_Uc4Tc8o

[redchapterjubilee]

I'm a Klone and Rat guy with my amps most the time. This is the 5F6A -> 2x12 combo on the boring SG side of the stage. Volume at noon, punched with Klone, Rat, or both. I loved how it would just bloom into perfect feedback at that volume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhuLwh5Qfew&t=171s

This is one of the few times I ever gigged the 5E3. It was SXSW and i didnt want to trust backline. That show the Klone is replaced with a Timmy (I was using the tiny board because I had to walk 2 miles carrying amp, board, and guitars because, you know, SXSW). Carrying a pine cabinet 5E3 is a joy. Well, as much a joy as carrying an amp around can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quTDbkmKCak

You can hear the 5E3 a lot better here. It's on the right side (on the other side Michael is plugged into a 63VVRI...we were aiming for "period" gear).

https://sinkholetexas.bandcamp.com/track/substitute

[hexes]

Everyone loves to talk about the tweed overdrive sound, but I sincerely believe that the tweed era circuits have the richest and best clean tone Fender ever had.

Listen to what Steve Cropper does with a Harvard all over the classic Booker T and Otis Redding tracks.

the fender magic for me is all brownface, all the time. Not crazy about a lot of tweed amps. tweed high power twin is a lovely amp, and the bassman is great. not crazy about deluxe or champ. turning a tweed champ into a tweed princeton made a lot of difference to me though.

the harvard is a great amp. if I were to build yet another tweed amp, i'd choose that.

[øøøøøøø]

I’ve never played a tweed amp. I understand they do the gritty Neil young thing, but what about other applications?

Mainly wondering if they can perform well for ambient/gazey/post-rock music or are they relegated to thick blues tones all the time?

Not looking for pristine blackface cleans. I’m actually more of a fan of vox cleans.

I’d also be particularly interested in knowing different tweed style amps to look at. Both Fender and non/fender. What is the best value tweed to look for?

And...are there any examples that are online of people/artists using tweeds for ambient music? I couldn’t really find much.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I'll offer this:

Broadly, they're Fender amps--not worlds apart from most other simple American tube amps (including later Fenders).

But something that's not said enough: the cabinet covering doesn't make the sound, and Fender amps were covered in tweed for well over a decade (the first were from the late '40s; the tweed 5F1 held on until '64). Even though the larger tweed amps were phased out in '60, that's still about 12 years worth of innovation.

For comparison, the brown/blonde nubtex only lasted about 3-4 years, and the "black panel" look about the same amount of time.

The earliest tweed amps used paraphase inverters, octal preamp tubes, etc. The last 5F6-A Bassman was much closer to the later brown/blonde/black amps than it was to the first tweed-covered amp of 1948.

All that to say... there really is no single "tweed Fender sound."

For what you need, the later revisions of the larger tweed amps would be absolutely great for what you're trying to do... 5F4 Super, 5E5-A Pro, 5E7 bandmaster, and especially the 5F6 or 5F6-A Bassman, 5E8-A (low-powered) Twin or 5F8-A (high-powered) Twin. You'd love them! They're amazing amps, and plenty clean and loud.

Even a 5E3 Deluxe (the last tweed Deluxe revision) is a great amp that you'd probably be happy with... it's just not as loud, and will overdrive at moderate levels.

[Surfysonic]

the fender magic for me is all brownface, all the time. Not crazy about a lot of tweed amps. tweed high power twin is a lovely amp, and the bassman is great. not crazy about deluxe or champ. turning a tweed champ into a tweed princeton made a lot of difference to me though.

the harvard is a great amp. if I were to build yet another tweed amp, i'd choose that.

My fave Fender amps are brownface, too. I had a '60 Fender Vibrasonic (1x15) that I recently had to sell, unfortunately. However, I still have a '62 Fender Bassman that is my primary amp. I also have a '64 Fender Princeton (tuxedo) that still has '63 brownface components in it, so it's a keeper.





I've been feeling the need for a tweed so I found a used but in excellent condition Fender '59 RI LTD Bassman (45 watts, 4x10" Jensen speakers). Sounds awesome and can be loud, but still sounds great at home volume levels. I can't recommend the tweed Bassman enough.

[deluxejazzmaster]

I can't school anyone on tweeds but I have gone from a Vibro-King (for about 10 years of use) to a 64 deluxe for about a year until I came across a 57 Pro in our local guitar store. I really dug the Vibro-King but it was too heavy for moving around as much as I did (just from room to room for recording in my house but also for gigs.... not 'too loud' like people complain but that's another story). I loved the size of the deluxe and it sounded fantastic but I am a one guitar, one amp kind of guy. I chose to stay with the Pro because it was 26 watts versus the Deluxe's 20 watts (which doesn't sound like much but it is a lot). I prefer to play with people that don't play loud but sometimes a drummer only can play so quiet (another long discussion as a drummer) the extra 6 watts of clean gave me enough volume.

The sound of the Pro is different than a tweed Deluxe and a Bassman. This particular amp claims to be "Custom" for a few reasons but notably because the originals used a alnico 15 and used a preamp tube that was different... the combo provided less headroom than most desire... so right off the bat, this is addressed ('cured' would be subjective). It is a clean machine... and for those of you that know the Vibro-King might understand when I say that it is closer to that sound than any other amp I know (the 57 Bandmaster even being closer, for the obvious reason). My particular tweed is chimney (mids and highs) and a big bottom end (thanks to the 15). It serves as a great jazz amp but I can get pretty surfy when I play my Chicago Special Jazzmaster through my Victoria Reverberammo. Have trouble getting to a point where this amp overdrives at the volumes I play but I do have a Ruess Wine and Roses Overdrive that (like someone mentioned) doesn't boost the mids and does a pretty good job of simulating higher volumes when not too loud.

The Blackface I had (Deluxe more recently but others in the past) were best described as 'high fi" versus a tweed sounding a more "lofi"... I think the mids (or lack of them) might be that reason.

I only know this Tweed and not any other....

[hexes]

I’ve been a vox guy for a while and am looking for something quality but smaller. The one thing about vox that I don’t like is the treble can be over the top.

I didn’t really realize these edge amps existed. If the edge plays with these, then it will definitely fit the bill. I actually listened to some demos and they sound fantastic.

I’m afraid 2k is a bit steep, even when the time comes. Wondering if there are cheaper/quality options? The alnico blue seems to be a big part of the recipe

the 5e3 deluxe is a very simple amplifier to build. AND, all the modifications to the circuit for the edge signature edition are very simple as well! you could do all the edge mods to a kit/clone if stock doesn't cut it for you and be very happy.

my 5e3 cost about $700 in parts to build and that's with a soursound output transformer and a weber alnico speaker (did the cabinet myself).