HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by countertext » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:53 pm

Two thumbs up from me.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by Nevets » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:28 pm

As a 12 string lover and headless guitar hater I have to say that thing is amazing. Hope you enjoy it!

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by BoringPostcards » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm

That bridge is really interesting. I would like to try one, just to try that system.
I could never own one, because I just can't stand headless instruments.
I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:44 pm

BoringPostcards wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm

I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
Well, I've got two - a Strandberg and a Kiesel. They have less of the ringing overtones, but as a result you get this massive, super focused fundamental. The Kiesel is easily the biggest-sounding guitar I have, including an ESP Eclipse and an Ormsby Hype GTR (multiscale 25.5-27.5, with a .95-.24 set on currently - still sounds wimpy in comparison), the thing sounds like a damn tank. They're also super balanced, like I can just leave them on my leg sitting down and forget it's there, and super light - the Kiesel is like 6lbs10oz and the Strandberg is dead-on 5lbs, which is great -- barely feels like you have anything on a strap, and because they're light they resonate like crazy, feels like I have a sub strapped to my ribcage. The cases are tiny too, easy to carry around in public transit or to fly with, and the tiny guitars are great in cramped quarters -- folks playing in orchestra pits and such would love this stuff.

As far as the first one, I have no idea, but the first of the current style (tuners and bridge in one system/part) was Ned Steinberger. Ola Strandberg started the current headless boom in the prog scene with his guitars, Kiesel does some good work, and there's a couple-dozen European custom shops that make some killer headlesses.

Also excuse you, Steinberger was founded in '79, they predate the 80s and if anything are more popular now than they were back then -- the 80s liked pointy headstocks :P
And come on, "eternally corny 80s aesthetic"? Maybe I'm showing my age, but the 80s are vintage-cool now :D

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by BoringPostcards » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:44 pm
BoringPostcards wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm

I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
Well, I've got two - a Strandberg and a Kiesel. They have less of the ringing overtones, but as a result you get this massive, super focused fundamental. The Kiesel is easily the biggest-sounding guitar I have, including an ESP Eclipse and an Ormsby Hype GTR (multiscale 25.5-27.5, with a .95-.24 set on currently - still sounds wimpy in comparison), the thing sounds like a damn tank. They're also super balanced, like I can just leave them on my leg sitting down and forget it's there, and super light - the Kiesel is like 6lbs10oz and the Strandberg is dead-on 5lbs, which is great -- barely feels like you have anything on a strap, and because they're light they resonate like crazy, feels like I have a sub strapped to my ribcage. The cases are tiny too, easy to carry around in public transit or to fly with, and the tiny guitars are great in cramped quarters -- folks playing in orchestra pits and such would love this stuff.

As far as the first one, I have no idea, but the first of the current style (tuners and bridge in one system/part) was Ned Steinberger. Ola Strandberg started the current headless boom in the prog scene with his guitars, Kiesel does some good work, and there's a couple-dozen European custom shops that make some killer headlesses.

Also excuse you, Steinberger was founded in '79, they predate the 80s and if anything are more popular now than they were back then -- the 80s liked pointy headstocks :P
And come on, "eternally corny 80s aesthetic"? Maybe I'm showing my age, but the 80s are vintage-cool now :D
I was born in 81, so I don't have nostalgia for the 80s aesthetic.
Most 80s music makes me squirm. It just sounds so dated, due to how primitive the electronic instruments were, plus the rack units and other gear. Just sounds sterile and strange to me, for the most part.
Don't even get me started on the Phil Collins gated snare drum.... lol.

The music isn't actually bad, but digital processing and equipment was still very new, so most of it sounds outdated, much in the same way an Atari game would look and sound next to a modern computer game.
I do love some 80s music, but most of the stuff I like are bands, that sounded very different to the mainstream at the time, or bands that originated in the 70s.
Headless guitars are likely not more popular now than in the 80s.
I think it seems that way, because of forums. Prog metal has never been huge, and I haven't seen a single headless guitar on a stage in a very long time.
Last person I saw live, who was using a headless, was Chad VanGaalen. This was a decade ago.
I only know one local person with a headless, and he doesn't even use it outside of recording.
They were everywhere in the 80s.

All that being said, I might change my tune, if I put some real time in on a modern headless, such as a Strandberg or Ormsby.
I have tried Strandbergs. I think the neck is super cool, but I wasn't pleased with the tone at all, but yes, it was super light and comfy.
I had literally no interest in Gibsons, until a friend left an SG at my jam space for two weeks.
I ordered my own SG less than a month later, so I could easily adjust to a headless with enough time.

I love the body shape of this XII string. Sure beats that awkward rectangular body of the usual Steinberger.

P.S. I am not above loving some cheesy bands. I do like Iron Maiden and 80s King Crimson, even with all the corny 80s bass tones and guitar synths from Levin and Fripp.
I also enjoy dated sounding recordings and lo-fi. I listen to a lot of Django Reinhardt and others from his era, but there is something about 80s recordings, that sound dated in an entirely different way.
Hard to explain in a post.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by SignoftheDragon » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am

BoringPostcards wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm
That bridge is really interesting. I would like to try one, just to try that system.
I could never own one, because I just can't stand headless instruments.
I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
There's a lot of their (Steinberger's) literature of the time proclaiming the purity and response of the tone of these composite-neck guitars- Probably a by-product of the same schools of guitar thought that had vintage Jags and JMs languishing in pawn shop and used gear dealers at the $300 pricepoint. Some other ideas from the same time/thought process: Fender Lace Sensor pickups, Floyd Rose locking trems, Digital signal processing, etc. etc.

We may laugh or scoff at the results of some of these efforts, but they were on the cutting edge of development at the time. There's all sorts of trash/treasure proverbs that would apply here...

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by HarlowTheFish » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:50 am

SignoftheDragon wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am
a lot of their (Steinberger's) literature of the time proclaiming the purity and response of the tone of these composite-neck guitars
There's (was, maybe? he doesn't do public builds) a builder in the prog guitar scene, Doug from Blackmachine, who had a very similar idea to the Steinberger tiny body-composite neck thing -- he'd use really hard, dense woods, like snakewood, ironwood, and rosewood for his necks, and really thin, chambered swamp ash for the bodies. This plus the locked-down hardtails and custom humbuckers (which you can get from Oil City, by the way - they're really damn good) did the opposite of a well-setup offset: similar to a headless, a really focused, tight fundamental, the entire thing stops on a dime if you need it to, really resonant, and a great mix of lightweight, well-balanced, and stable construction. Locking down the ends of the string to kill sympathetic vibrations and having a light, resonant body and a really stiff and stable neck is probably very much not the sound anybody posting here is looking for, but it's pretty great for the music it's aimed at.
BoringPostcards wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am
I was born in 81, so I don't have nostalgia for the 80s aesthetic.
Most 80s music makes me squirm. It just sounds so dated, due to how primitive the electronic instruments were, plus the rack units and other gear. Just sounds sterile and strange to me, for the most part.
Don't even get me started on the Phil Collins gated snare drum.... lol.
I was born in '98, so by the time I started getting into my own music, grunge was the nostalgia-music of choice. I mean yeah the 80s (pop, anyway) is fake, plastic, and cheesy as all hell, but that's part of the fun, and it's definitely making a comeback in modern pop culture -- seriously, just spend like 4 minutes going through some of the stuff that's popular today (which, to be fair, is kinda important for musicians; staying locked in your own bubble and not being aware of what else is going on is really bad, I'm trying to not back into that bad habit), there's a ton of 80s sounds and vibes coming back (though they obviously sound way better.
BoringPostcards wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am
Headless guitars are likely not more popular now than in the 80s.
I think it seems that way, because of forums. Prog metal has never been huge, and I haven't seen a single headless guitar on a stage in a very long time.
Last person I saw live, who was using a headless, was Chad VanGaalen. This was a decade ago.
I only know one local person with a headless, and he doesn't even use it outside of recording.
They were everywhere in the 80s.

All that being said, I might change my tune, if I put some real time in on a modern headless, such as a Strandberg or Ormsby.
I have tried Strandbergs. I think the neck is super cool, but I wasn't pleased with the tone at all, but yes, it was super light and comfy.
I had literally no interest in Gibsons, until a friend left an SG at my jam space for two weeks.
I ordered my own SG less than a month later, so I could easily adjust to a headless with enough time.
I think headlesses might be less visible because the people playing them don't do massive tours and whatnot, but they're getting huge in the heavy scene even outside prog. Plini plays and tours with his signature Strandy, Aaron Marshall from Intervals used to have a Strandy 7 before switching to Aristides (who have their own headless model now too), I think the guys from Archspire (or at least one of them) are full-time on Kiesel Vaders, Tosin and Javier from AAL tour with custom Strandys for a few songs, Chris Letchford from Scale The Summit, Yvette from Covet has a Strandy 7 as well as her Ibby signature 6, the list goes on -- and that's just guitarists, bass players are fully on the hype train in the heavy scene. I can name like maybe two guys from the 80s (Sting and EVH) who did the headless thing regularly, and while they had a lot more visibility, I don't know if it's fair to conflate their personal popularity with that of headless instruments.
BoringPostcards wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am
P.S. I am not above loving some cheesy bands. I do like Iron Maiden and 80s King Crimson, even with all the corny 80s bass tones and guitar synths from Levin and Fripp.
I also enjoy dated sounding recordings and lo-fi. I listen to a lot of Django Reinhardt and others from his era, but there is something about 80s recordings, that sound dated in an entirely different way.
Hard to explain in a post.
The older stuff (especially older jazz) is lo-fi, but it's analog-lofi in a way that makes it charming and quaint, and that mixes down in a way that's much less offensive than some of the later early-digital studio tools. Late 70s, 80s, and up to maybe mid-90s stuff that's done on some of this stuff sounds rough because a lot of the things that producers and engineers couldn't hear as weird (because they were limited by okayish analog audio gear like monitors and whatnot) is now easily audible even on trash-tier $2 earbuds from the local pharmacy. We're hearing stuff they didn't fix because they couldn't hear it, while the recordings that predate that mostly have the issue that we can't hear stuff that was audible in the room because the recording media and technology weren't up to snuff to capture everything. Charlie Christian would sound a lot more distorted live, for example, and Django would be a lot less mellow.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by BoringPostcards » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:32 pm

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:50 am
SignoftheDragon wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am
a lot of their (Steinberger's) literature of the time proclaiming the purity and response of the tone of these composite-neck guitars
There's (was, maybe? he doesn't do public builds) a builder in the prog guitar scene, Doug from Blackmachine, who had a very similar idea to the Steinberger tiny body-composite neck thing -- he'd use really hard, dense woods, like snakewood, ironwood, and rosewood for his necks, and really thin, chambered swamp ash for the bodies. This plus the locked-down hardtails and custom humbuckers (which you can get from Oil City, by the way - they're really damn good) did the opposite of a well-setup offset: similar to a headless, a really focused, tight fundamental, the entire thing stops on a dime if you need it to, really resonant, and a great mix of lightweight, well-balanced, and stable construction. Locking down the ends of the string to kill sympathetic vibrations and having a light, resonant body and a really stiff and stable neck is probably very much not the sound anybody posting here is looking for, but it's pretty great for the music it's aimed at.
BoringPostcards wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am
I was born in 81, so I don't have nostalgia for the 80s aesthetic.
Most 80s music makes me squirm. It just sounds so dated, due to how primitive the electronic instruments were, plus the rack units and other gear. Just sounds sterile and strange to me, for the most part.
Don't even get me started on the Phil Collins gated snare drum.... lol.
I was born in '98, so by the time I started getting into my own music, grunge was the nostalgia-music of choice. I mean yeah the 80s (pop, anyway) is fake, plastic, and cheesy as all hell, but that's part of the fun, and it's definitely making a comeback in modern pop culture -- seriously, just spend like 4 minutes going through some of the stuff that's popular today (which, to be fair, is kinda important for musicians; staying locked in your own bubble and not being aware of what else is going on is really bad, I'm trying to not back into that bad habit), there's a ton of 80s sounds and vibes coming back (though they obviously sound way better.

I certainly listen to tons of newer music, and regularly go to live shows still, so I am fully aware of the 80s comeback.
I still don't like 80s guitar tones that much, especially the heavy chorus lead tone that guys like Guthrie Govan use. That tone makes whatever interesting things he does unlistenable for me.
I just can't do that tone.
I like some of the electronic music elements brought back from the 80s, because they sound great with modern patches.
Some interesting usage by the Strokes on their latest, to name a known act employing it.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by BoringPostcards » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:51 pm

SignoftheDragon wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am
BoringPostcards wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm
That bridge is really interesting. I would like to try one, just to try that system.
I could never own one, because I just can't stand headless instruments.
I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
We may laugh or scoff at the results of some of these efforts, but they were on the cutting edge of development at the time. There's all sorts of trash/treasure proverbs that would apply here...
I agree with you 100% on all of these points.
I think your Steinberger is gorgeous. It is the rectangular Steinbergers I dislike, because they are too small of a body for me. Your model's body is great.
I also love the ergonomic shapes used by modern brands. I should have specified.
I am not a fan of headless, mostly due to very little experience, as well as being a person, who bends and picks behind the nut and saddle a lot. I wouldn't want to miss out on this, although I wouldn't use those techniques on a XII.

I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. I just wanted to express my weird aversion to certain elements of the music of my childhood.
I get vibes of Rush's synth heavy period and Dire Straits' Money for Nothing, when I see the rectangular shaped models, as well as countless nameless studio dudes, who played with Michael Jackson.
You know how all the good rock bands of the 70s tried to 'modernize' their sound in the 80s?
That's what my parents listened to, and I can't break the association easily.
I intend to get a headless some day and make myself appreciate them.
I've done it with Explorers and Vs. I like them now, so headless is inevitable.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by SignoftheDragon » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:34 pm

BoringPostcards wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:51 pm
SignoftheDragon wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am
BoringPostcards wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:24 pm
That bridge is really interesting. I would like to try one, just to try that system.
I could never own one, because I just can't stand headless instruments.
I will never understand, why somebody would want a guitar that is neutered of its overtones, either the ones originating behind the bridge or past the nut.
Is there a reason beyond ergonomics? Who built the first one, and what were they trying to achieve, besides an eternally corny 80s aesthetic?
We may laugh or scoff at the results of some of these efforts, but they were on the cutting edge of development at the time. There's all sorts of trash/treasure proverbs that would apply here...
I agree with you 100% on all of these points.
I think your Steinberger is gorgeous. It is the rectangular Steinbergers I dislike, because they are too small of a body for me. Your model's body is great.
I also love the ergonomic shapes used by modern brands. I should have specified.
I am not a fan of headless, mostly due to very little experience, as well as being a person, who bends and picks behind the nut and saddle a lot. I wouldn't want to miss out on this, although I wouldn't use those techniques on a XII.

I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. I just wanted to express my weird aversion to certain elements of the music of my childhood.
I get vibes of Rush's synth heavy period and Dire Straits' Money for Nothing, when I see the rectangular shaped models, as well as countless nameless studio dudes, who played with Michael Jackson.
You know how all the good rock bands of the 70s tried to 'modernize' their sound in the 80s?
That's what my parents listened to, and I can't break the association easily.
I intend to get a headless some day and make myself appreciate them.
I've done it with Explorers and Vs. I like them now, so headless is inevitable.
No offense taken, my friend! I am right there with you laughing and scoffing at many things in the 80s that you have mentioned- just like any decade of music, there are piles of shyte to sift through, and some truly remarkable gems to be found in the sifting.

I'm fine with the paddle-shaped ones myself- they evoke a lot of crazy experimentation & deconstruction that was going on at the time. (Think DEVO, Prince, LesRita Mitsuko, etc.) But that said, I haven't been looking to add one to the collection.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by fever606 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:10 am

Congrats! I love an M-body Steinberger! We're the same age, and I had an acquaintance in college that played a white GM - I thought it was cool as hell and sounded great, but didn't really get the "itch" to start looking at them seriously until the prices had started inching up.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:45 pm

Congrats to you sir!

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by SignoftheDragon » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:11 pm

IT'S HERE!

After a small bit of nail-biting delays in customs, and having to fill out several forms- 1) a known importer form, and 2) a Lacey Act form to declare the species of wood contained in this Made in USA to begin with instrument- all under the threat of "if this information isn't provided to us in 5 business days we will return it to the sender until the information is completed properly." Anyway, I guess most of the trouble is triggered by the value of the imported item being over $2500 bux. Small inconvenience now that I have the bird in hand- all that trouble & hoops to jump through can just fade into the past. A 30-year+ lifelong dream has been achieved!

The box: smaller than I realized- especially when unpacking through several layers of foam and cardboard (Kudos to the seller- great job protecting it for the journey) to reveal an even smaller than I had realized original hardshell case.

Opened it up, and I swear I heard the Heavenly Host. This thing is amazing. Weird, but just perfectly meeting my expectations- as well as a few surprises to top it off. I couldn't be happier. Here's some pics:

Image

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Image

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Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Plastic still on the cover... I'm pretty sure that's the original battery it shipped with!
Image

Early serial number confirms this was assembled at the Newburgh, NY factory - Pre-Gibson buyout.
Image

Image

Yes, it's missing a string.
Last edited by SignoftheDragon on Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by eskmsaul » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:23 pm

Glad it arrived safe and sound! Unfortunately, the pictures don't seem to be working for me.

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Re: HOLY CRAP- I FINALLY FOUND ONE (Steinberger 12 content)

Post by smjenkins » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:41 pm

I can't see the pics either but I'm so excited for you. Congrats on finally landing the dream.

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