Are Chinese made Tokai guitars crap?

[nwordjim]

So I had planned on buying a couple of Chinese made Tokai guitars, specifically these models:

http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-es6 ... e-sunburst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-lim ... itar-white" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-fbj ... y-sunburst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-tb4 ... r-in-white" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was talking to a mate of mine today and he said he bought the Tokai FBJR model and that it was muck. He said it had "the worst nut that I've ever seen on any guitar" and that the machine heads, and electronics were awful. He said the finish looked cheap and that when he went to refinish it the wood wasn't of very good quality either.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Japanese and Korean made Tokai guitars so this came as a bit of a shock. Does anyone else have any experience with these models or other Chinese made Tokai guitars? Thanks

[BlixaFan]

i personally own a Tokai firebird copy (2 pickups)which is made in China and i think it's a really cool guitar. it's good quality, the tuners are fine i find, they are solid and smooth, and the nut is decent, I haven't had any trouble with it. something's a little iffy with the 3 way switch right now, so the rhythm circuit is the one that works right now, and the treble one does occasionally. i'm not sure if it is the jack or the switch, i'll have to check.
i think its a good guitar, i wouldn't recommend NOT getting one. i'm happy with mine,and its a different sound from my other guitars.

[nwordjim]

i personally own a Tokai firebird copy (2 pickups)which is made in China and i think it's a really cool guitar. it's good quality, the tuners are fine i find, they are solid and smooth, and the nut is decent, I haven't had any trouble with it. something's a little iffy with the 3 way switch right now, so the rhythm circuit is the one that works right now, and the treble one does occasionally. i'm not sure if it is the jack or the switch, i'll have to check.
i think its a good guitar, i wouldn't recommend NOT getting one. i'm happy with mine,and its a different sound from my other guitars.

Thanks for the input! I planned on buying all of the above over the next month, I'll go ahead and pick one and then evaluate it. It just really put me off when my mate said just about everythign was wrong with his! :-)

[djetz]

Guitars are individuals. You get good ones even in the cheapest range, and dogs even in the most expensive range. I've played some terrible Fenders (for instance), but I've also played some great ones. So you can't really judge a brand by one person hating one example - could just be an anomaly. Or it could be that the person has different tastes to your own.

I've found that you can't really judge anything as personal as a guitar by anything other than your own opinion.

[skip]

Guitars are individuals. You get good ones even in the cheapest range, and dogs even in the most expensive range. I've played some terrible Fenders (for instance), but I've also played some great ones. So you can't really judge a brand by one person hating one example - could just be an anomaly. Or it could be that the person has different tastes to your own.

I've found that you can't really judge anything as personal as a guitar by anything other than your own opinion.

this^^^^^

and- i have heard many good things about tokai's

i have one jagmaster that is just a good one- it is as good as my jag and jazzy-- it's true

[devnulljp]

I used to have bunch of MIJ Tokais, before there were Tokais made anywhere else -- they were all great guitars, and I got them pretty cheap too.
I've yet to see any piece of music equipment made in China that isn't (a) crap, (b) shoddy, and (c) did I mention crap?
Sure you might get lucky, but you're buying something made as cheaply as possible, with all the corners cut, made on an assembly line by people who don't give a crap.
That, and by buying this stuff you encourage manufacturers to offshore production to China, which isn't good for a number of reasons.

Why buy this crap? I don't get it. Buy one decent guitar instead of three or four pish ones.

[nwordjim]

Guitars are individuals. You get good ones even in the cheapest range, and dogs even in the most expensive range. I've played some terrible Fenders (for instance), but I've also played some great ones. So you can't really judge a brand by one person hating one example - could just be an anomaly. Or it could be that the person has different tastes to your own.

I've found that you can't really judge anything as personal as a guitar by anything other than your own opinion.

Yes I realise this but if many people have had a similar experience a trend is formed. If several people give me the feedback that the Chinese made Tokais are bad, one can assume the Chinese factory may have quality or production issues.

I've yet to see any piece of music equipment made in China that isn't (a) crap, (b) shoddy, and (c) did I mention crap?

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I bought some replica Gibson Les Pauls from China a while back and they were great. Much higher quality than the Epiphone Les Pauls in my opinion. Once I swapped out the pick ups, electronics, and the stop tail piece it was nearly as good as my authentic Gibson Les Paul standard, and about 1/4th the price.

Why buy this crap? I don't get it. Buy one decent guitar instead of three or four pish ones.

Because the Chinese made Tokais may not be crap. I already own two really nice guitars and i am looking to add more horses to my stable. I also like a project.

I mean imagine this:

http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-lim ... itar-white" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With an Irongear platinum 90 pick up? Maybe some CTS potentiometers? How about an Orange Drop capacitor? My point is is the wood is good then even if you put money into upgrading it you're still saving hundreds over the cost of a new Gibson, and I'd probably end up modifying that too.

[shadowplay]

I used to have bunch of MIJ Tokais, before there were Tokais made anywhere else -- they were all great guitars, and I got them pretty cheap too.
I've yet to see any piece of music equipment made in China that isn't (a) crap, (b) shoddy, and (c) did I mention crap?
Sure you might get lucky, but you're buying something made as cheaply as possible, with all the corners cut, made on an assembly line by people who don't give a crap.
That, and by buying this stuff you encourage manufacturers to offshore production to China, which isn't good for a number of reasons.

Why buy this crap? I don't get it. Buy one decent guitar instead of three or four pish ones.

Totally agree with this, Tokai once made amazing guitars and seldom made bad ones. I've played loads of crappy Fenders but not one bad Japanese Tokai or Fernandes.

I noticed that any arguments against this post skirted round the ethical component. Seriously, it should be a source of shame to buy Chinese made guitars or Chinese amde anything unless there is literally no alternative. Even if you couldn't care less about the conditions the workers endure you should care how this erodes the US domestic guitar production. It's all part of the thin wedge that sees jobs move overseas to the lowest bidder.

I bought some replica Gibson Les Pauls from China a while back and they were great.

I am honestly amazed that you think it's OK to brag about buying counterfeit goods, this trade is totally undermining hundreds of traditional quality brands. If you want a Gibson buy a Gibson, don't buy a fake off criminals.

D

[nwordjim]

I used to have bunch of MIJ Tokais, before there were Tokais made anywhere else -- they were all great guitars, and I got them pretty cheap too.
I've yet to see any piece of music equipment made in China that isn't (a) crap, (b) shoddy, and (c) did I mention crap?
Sure you might get lucky, but you're buying something made as cheaply as possible, with all the corners cut, made on an assembly line by people who don't give a crap.
That, and by buying this stuff you encourage manufacturers to offshore production to China, which isn't good for a number of reasons.

Why buy this crap? I don't get it. Buy one decent guitar instead of three or four pish ones.

Totally agree with this, Tokai once made amazing guitars and seldom made bad ones. I've played loads of crappy Fenders but not one bad Japanese Tokai or Fernandes.

I noticed that any arguments against this post skirted round the ethical component. Seriously, it should be a source of shame to buy Chinese made guitars or Chinese amde anything unless there is literally no alternative. Even if you couldn't care less about the conditions the workers endure you should care how this erodes the US domestic guitar production. It's all part of the thin wedge that sees jobs move overseas to the lowest bidder.

I bought some replica Gibson Les Pauls from China a while back and they were great.

I am honestly amazed that you think it's OK to brag about buying counterfeit goods, this trade is totally undermining hundreds of traditional quality brands. If you want a Gibson buy a Gibson, don't buy a fake off criminals.

D

So they're criminals now? Last time I checked they were just some Chinese people trying to make a living. Honestly, you don't know much about guitars if you would mistake them for a being a real Gibson. By your logic, if you buy any guitar made using a simlar design to the original you're buying a fake. How many times have Fener or Gibson designs been used by other companies? Lots of people on here make thier own guitars copying Fender and Gibson designs and ell them on, does that make them criminals too?

Regaridng working conditions; you don't know they're bad. Do you think they'd be better off if they had no jobs? if you want to see what that would be like, do a google search on Liberia.

[shadowplay]

So they're criminals now? Last time I checked they were just some Chinese people trying to make a living. Honestly, you don't know much about guitars if you would mistake them for a being a real Gibson. By your logic, if you buy any guitar made using a simlar design to the original you're buying a fake. How many times have Fener or Gibson designs been used by other companies? Lots of people on here make thier own guitars copying Fender and Gibson designs and ell them on, does that make them criminals too?

Regaridng working conditions, you don't know they're bad. Do you think they'd be better off if they had no jobs? if you want to see what that would be like, do a google search on Liberia.

Firstly you said GIBSON COPY. If it says Gibson it's a counterfeit and criminal. The brand I own and work for gets copied fairly regularly, am I supposed to think it's OK people stealing my designs and ideas and slapping them on an inferior product that damages my brand? I think the same about anyone slapping another persons trademark on a guitar, you want it to say Fender, buy a Fender. It's the same with clothes, handbags and anything you care to mention, if you want the name you pay the price. People make guitars for their own use on this site, that's up to them, I personally don't like them using the Fender name but mass manufacture is another matter. I take it you would be OK with someone taking your name and your reputation and using it to make money. As for conditions, I have extensive experience in the garment industry and 99% of Chinese garment factories would not be allowed to operate in my home country, they are downright dangerous. No filters, missing guards on machinery, dangerous and antiquated machinery and hours and working conditions illegal everywhere else in the world.

It's pretty laughable you saying that sweatshops are good for a country. These jobs only exist because the pay and conditions are eroded to such an extent. You tell me to go and Google why don't you take your own advice and have a google about conditions in Chinese manufacturing. All the big brands in almost all sectors manufacture in China but none of them are transparent about this, they hide behind manufacturing agents because they do not want to know how the Chinese get their prices so low they only want the end result.

It's only a guitar there are millions of cheap secondhand ones, there is no need to sponsor unethical practices.

D

[nwordjim]

So they're criminals now? Last time I checked they were just some Chinese people trying to make a living. Honestly, you don't know much about guitars if you would mistake them for a being a real Gibson. By your logic, if you buy any guitar made using a simlar design to the original you're buying a fake. How many times have Fener or Gibson designs been used by other companies? Lots of people on here make thier own guitars copying Fender and Gibson designs and ell them on, does that make them criminals too?

Regaridng working conditions, you don't know they're bad. Do you think they'd be better off if they had no jobs? if you want to see what that would be like, do a google search on Liberia.

Firstly you said GIBSON COPY. If it says Gibson it's a counterfeit and criminal. The brand I own and work for gets copied fairly regularly, am I supposed to think it's OK people stealing my designs and ideas and slapping them on an inferior product that damages my brand? I think the same about anyone slapping another persons trademark on a guitar, you want it to say Fender, buy a Fender. It's the same with clothes, handbags and anything you care to mention, if you want the name you pay the price. People make guitars for their own use on this site, that's up to them, I personally don't like them using the Fender name but mass manufacture is another matter. I take it you would be OK with someone taking your name and your reputation and using it to make money. As for conditions, I have extensive experience in the garment industry and 99% of Chinese garment factories would not be allowed to operate in my home country, they are downright dangerous. No filters, missing guards on machinery, dangerous and antiquated machinery and hours and working conditions illegal everywhere else in the world.

It's pretty laughable you saying that sweatshops are good for a country. These jobs only exist because the pay and conditions are eroded to such an extent. You tell me to go and Google why don't you take your own advice and have a google about conditions in Chinese manufacturing. All the big brands in almost all sectors manufacture in China but none of them are transparent about this, they hide behind manufacturing agents because they do not want to know how the Chinese get their prices so low they only want the end result.

It's only a guitar there are millions of cheap secondhand ones, there is no need to sponsor unethical practices.

D

I never said Gibson copy, I said "replica."

Okay then you better never play a Fender or Gibson guitar then because Squires and Epiphones are made in China. While you're at it, get off that computer those components were made in China, take off all your clothes because those were made in China too.

Fact is those working conditions aren't great but it's a job. In the United States and in the U.K. people work under those same conditions. Have you been to China? I have I worked all over Asia in the Financial industry. People worked in many different kinds of jobs, just like everywhere else. They were happy to be working and they are very proud of their country and it's products.

You want to see really harsh conditions go to Africa or India. Those people live in abject despair, because their are no jobs. The jobs that are on offer are prized.

At any rate you've gone off topic and you've didn't have anything useful to add. If you're so passionate about work conditions and copyright infringement why don't you start up a topic about that in your own thread so it can be discussed there?

[shadowplay]

I never said Gibson copy, I said "replica."

Copy/Replica is the same thing. Does it say Gibson?

I only own US, UK, or German made guitars and one Japanese Gretsch made in a factory Gretsch is happy to let photographers visit and take photographs.

I own no clothes made in china/India or anywhere else without proper labour laws and neither does my partner, child or most of my friends. I only wear my own brand (made in UK or Portugal) and UK or American made shoes and underwear. On Chinese manufacture I trust my manufacturing agent who has worked in the field for years, he said he wouldn't send his worst enemy to work in the factory used by a major international brand that wanted me to design a collection for them. I took his advice and I didn't design it. Of all the industry insiders I have met not one would stand behind the decision made by those higher up the chain to make in China, this is aside from the quality issue. When I did design work for a major international sports shoe manufacturer, they point blank refused to provide us with any evidence of conditions in their Chinese plants, so we walked away. If you have nothing to hide, why hide it? You might be comfortable with getting cheap gear off the exploitation of others I am not.

My computer is an Apple and is made in a Chinese factory which has been certified and inspected. I would rather not use it but I have no choice, it is the best choice I could make in the circumstances.

As for off-topic that is for the mods to decide. You question was; Are Chinese made Tokai guitars crap? My answer is relevant because they are morally crap as well as from a quality standpoint. The ethical dimension of Chinese made guitars has been discussed many times on OSG, you might not care but others do. It's your conscience.

D

[nwordjim]

I never said Gibson copy, I said "replica."

Copy/Replica is the same thing. Does it say Gibson?

I only own US, UK, or German made guitars and one Japanese Gretsch made in a factory Gretsch is happy to let photographers visit and take photographs.

I own no clothes made in china/India or anywhere else without proper labour laws and neither does my partner, child or most of my friends. I only wear my own brand (made in UK or Portugal) and UK or American made shoes and underwear. On Chinese manufacture I trust my manufacturing agent who has worked in the field for years, he said he wouldn't send his worst enemy to work in the factory used by a major international brand that wanted me to design a collection for them. I took his advice and I didn't design it. Of all the industry insiders I have met not one would stand behind the decision made by those higher up the chain to make in China, this is aside from the quality issue. When I did design work for a major international sports shoe manufacturer, they point blank refused to provide us with any evidence of conditions in their Chinese plants, so we walked away. If you have nothing to hide, why hide it? You might be comfortable with getting cheap gear off the exploitation of others I am not.

My computer is an Apple and is made in a Chinese factory which has been certified and inspected. I would rather not use it but I have no choice, it is the best choice I could make in the circumstances.

As for off-topic that is for the mods to decide. You question was; Are Chinese made Tokai guitars crap? My answer is relevant because they are morally crap as well as from a quality standpoint. The ethical dimension of Chinese made guitars has been discussed many times on OSG, you might not care but others do. It's your conscience.

D

Nah BUZZZ! Wrong! Gretsch is owned by Fender. Fender has guitars made in China, as are the Electromatic series Gretsch guitars. Fender and Gibson both have guitars made in China so when you buy guitars from them you are support their practices.

Your Apple computer has parts made by Foxconn you might enjoy reading this about Foxconn. http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/07/21/fo ... de-ensues/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Your stance is very hypocritical and your argument doesn't hold up.

Sorry you went off topic horribly. We were talking about Tokai guitars made in China not copyright infringement or worker's rights.

[shadowplay]

You only hear what you want to hear. I make my decisions as best I can, at least I try and at no point have I declared I am a 100% ethical consumer, only as close as I can reasonably get. I never said to boycott Fender, buying a US made Fender does not sponsor their Chinese manufacture, quite the opposite. You think it's OK to buy sweatshop and fake goods, fine it's your decision. I personally think it is morally repugnant and I won't do it. There is no argument you can make in favour of fake goods that will convince me or anyone else with a conscience.

I'm done with this, honestly off you go and buy your Tokai, for me manufacture and ethics are indivisible from the finished product. You can also get a better secondhand guitar for the money which is a whole other argument.

D

[nwordjim]

You only hear what you want to hear. I make my decisions as best I can, at least I try and at no point have I declared I am a 100% ethical consumer, only as close as I can reasonably get. I never said to boycott Fender, buying a US made Fender does not sponsor their Chinese manufacture, quite the opposite. You think it's OK to buy sweatshop and fake goods, fine it's your decision. I personally think it is morally repugnant and I won't do it. There is no argument you can make in favour of fake goods that will convince me or anyone else with a conscience.

I'm done with this, honestly off you go and buy your Tokai, for me manufacture and ethics are indivisible from the finished product. You can also get a better secondhand guitar for the money which is a whole other argument.

D

You can't avoid the fact that when you buy a Fender guitar you are supporting that compaines decesions and policies, 2nd hand or first hand. Long story short you buy Chinese products every day.