Current Gibson Les Pauls

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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marqueemoon
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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:25 pm

mediocreplayer wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:37 pm
I find all LPs muddy so cannot speak much to the pickups.
For classic rock toanz humbucker LP + treble booster is a magical combo. I would strongly recommend that to the OP too given the amps they have. Brings the neck pickup into focus and really brings out the nasal-in-a-good-way qualities.

Yeah, go play a bunch.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by DesmondWafers » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:06 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:44 pm


If this is your vibe, factory-made guitars (at any price point) are liable to require a few attempts. Something like a Collings or other high-end small-builder thing might be a better fit.

I suppose the problem is that there are plenty of factory-made guitars that put Gibson's QC to shame. I don't want to shit on them too hard because they do make great instruments, but as someone that came to them long after loving Fenders and Martins, the quality was disappointing.

I love my J-50, but it came with big chips in the fingerboard, a saddle slot cut way too long, an overset neck (I still can't get the action above 2.2mm without a dangerously high saddle), and nut slots cut so poorly that after 17 years of playing and fixing guitars, I finally broke down and ordered a set of nut files. Why did I keep it? It sounded better than the other ones. 2 years later, I bought a J-185. It was perfect, go figure.

Sure, these are anecdotal examples. However, I work for a large music company and I see a lot of brand-new guitars. Gibsons have far more QC issues than other brands of the same cost. These are generally not deal-breaking issues (frets with laughably poor polish jobs, chips, finish problems) but they do occur, and at a much higher rate than you would find on something like a modern factory-made American Fender, Japanese Gretsch, or standard-series Martin guitar. They're certainly not acceptable on a $2-3K guitar, at least in my opinion. I'd still buy one (and will again), but I'd be more careful than I would be buying another brand.
Last edited by DesmondWafers on Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by ElephantDNA » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:09 pm

DesmondWafers wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:06 pm
øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:44 pm


If this is your vibe, factory-made guitars (at any price point) are liable to require a few attempts. Something like a Collings or other high-end small-builder thing might be a better fit.

I suppose the problem is that there are plenty of factory-made guitars that put Gibson's QC to shame. I don't want to shit on them too hard because they do make great instruments, but as someone that came to them long after loving Fenders and Martins, the quality was disappointing.

I love my J-50, but it came with big chips in the fingerboard, a saddle slot cut way too long, an overset neck (I still can't get the action above 2.2mm without a dangerously high saddle), and nut slots cut so poorly that after 17 years of playing and fixing guitars, I finally broke down and ordered a set of nut files. Why did I keep it? It sounded better than the other ones. 2 years later, I bought a J-185. It was perfect, go figure.

Sure, these are anecdotal examples. However, I work for a large music company and I see a lot of brand-new guitars. Gibsons have far more QC issues than other brands of the same cost. These are generally not deal-breaking issues (frets with laughably poor polish jobs, chips, finish problems) but they do occur, and at a much higher rate than you would find on something like a modern factory-made American Fender, Japanese Gretsch, or standard-series Martin. They're certainly not acceptable on a $2-3K guitar, at least in my opinion. I'd still buy one (and will again), but I'd be more careful than I would be buying another brand.
Agreed - the quality and fit and finish of the current instruments they are putting out is very poor. Even compared just to fender let alone some of the other options out there. I would look for used stuff pre-2005 or so if I wanted to buy gibson or epiphone (which I do not). Cosmetic flaws are extremely common as mentioned above, but there are also just design problems they refuse to fix like headstock breaks and inability for these guitars to stay in tune for any length of time. I wish I could write it all off as hype or rumors but I've seen enough evidence from my own guitars, music stores, and from what I've seen online as well.
Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:59 pm
Yeah, I tend to not let myself get too worked up about it. And honestly, it's hard with Gibson, not because their guitars have bad quality but just because there's so much internet talk about it that it gets in your mind.

I guess I'm not too picky, although I just ordered a new used instrument and only just now noticed that it has a pretty big chunk of finish missing from the back.

Not sure how I missed that.
I wouldn't say it's "internet talk." I've owned several vintage les pauls (70's 80's) and one of my favorite guitars I have right now is an older early 2000's epiphone (it has locking tuners so it actually stays in tune). Whenever they put out new models I usually try to check them out in the music store, though I woudn't say I've tried every single one. It's very obvious how poorly these instruments are constructed. Not just when compared to old-school vintage but even from a few years ago. Very poor attention to detail, obvious cosmetic errors, models that should be neck through turned into bolt ons to save money. It's just not a good quality instrument when there are so many other options these days.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:16 pm

My first-ever brand new guitar was a Custom Shop L-4CES that I saved for/ordered as a kid (would've been 1998). It had pretty serious cosmetic QC issues, which wouldn't seem to support the notion that things were better pre-2005. I'd played others from that same time period that were much tidier, so mine was probably finished by someone who happened to be in a hurry.

One thing that makes comparison to other manufacturers tricky is that Gibson sells a ton of guitars and unhappy customers are far more vocal than happy ones. Even if their percentage of poorly-QC'd guitars tracks closely with the others, there will be 3-10x as many angry internet screeds.

Most larger brands will have some QC troubles eventually. A fair few 70s Martins had bridges glued on in the wrong place such that they couldn't be made to play in tune without major repairs. It's the kind of thing that happens to most larger manufacturers at one time or another... maybe Gibson is more-prone to this than others, but I don't really have that impression.

The Gibson headstock break thing is kind of a separate conversation, as it's not a QC issue--it's a design weakness that was identified and corrected as early as 1969. The Norlin-era 3-piece maple neck with a volute is pretty hard to break when compared to pitched headstocks of other manufacturers.

Gibson were compelled to return to the weaker spec because players demanded they make them like they did in the 50s. Which--I've got no real reason to defend Gibson, but that just goes to show that someone's gonna moan no matter what you do.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by ElephantDNA » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:09 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:16 pm
One thing that makes comparison to other manufacturers tricky is that Gibson sells a ton of guitars and unhappy customers are far more vocal than happy ones.
Or the happy ones are blues lawyers who don't know shit about guitar?

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:05 pm

ElephantDNA wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:09 pm
øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:16 pm
One thing that makes comparison to other manufacturers tricky is that Gibson sells a ton of guitars and unhappy customers are far more vocal than happy ones.
Or the happy ones are blues lawyers who don't know shit about guitar?
My experience is that people who fall more on the "gear enthusiast/collector" end of the spectrum tend to be pickier (and generally more knowledgeable and obsessive about gear) than career touring performers.

No judgment either way; gear collecting is a relatively harmless hobby.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by cincinnatiharry » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:47 am

Personally, I was a big Gibson guy. I still like Gibson but I sold off all my Gibson Les Pauls. I have kept my Gibson Firebird, Thunderbird, and J-35.

I still like Les Pauls but I am more interested Japanese Les Paul customs like Greco, Burny, and Orville. They're just as good and fraction of the cost.

I am looking for a a 2015 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe gold top... the most hated one with a brass zero fret and robot tuners. It never had tuning issues and regret selling it. I like the wider neck too. Gibson replaced the bras nut/zero fret thing with stainless steel for free... GOD I WISH I STILL HAD THAT GUITAR!

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Doc Sportello
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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Doc Sportello » Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:01 am

Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice guys! Sounds like it's still necessary to try before you buy if QC if is still this shaky. Previous experience years ago with the 2015 Traditionals was having to return a few due to actual DOA issues like pots not working, etc. Not a cork sniffer myself, some of my favourite guitars have been B-stock Fenders or Squiers that I did some some basic work on, but at the price point of these Gibsons, I really don't feel like having to accept imperfections and it would also be nice to have a nice matching top. Now to find a shop somewhat nearby that has them all in store to try is going to be a challenge, fingers crossed.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:43 am

Try before you buy is always good advice unless you're a gambler.

That said, I've rolled the dice many times and it always seems to work out

However I always plan on getting any instrument I buy set up and worked on a bit, so that kind of tempers any expectations that it'll be a world-beater out of the box.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:02 am

Doc Sportello wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:01 am
...but at the price point of these Gibsons, I really don't feel like having to accept imperfections...
I guess that's the thing, I buy Gibsons used so I don't find them particularly expensive and I expect some kind of imperfections from use.
But when I have bought them new I found I got what I paid for.

To me, though, any mass produced guitar I can think of isn't quite finished when I get it, first of all, it needs a setup, and I very often do some kind of upgrades to them.

Like, I don't give a shit about small imperfections in the finish or whatever since I know what the life of the guitar will do anyway, but I really like when there are high quality hardware components on there that I don't feel I need to upgrade, and I like it when what's underneath the hood is quality (i.e., shielding).
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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Fiddy » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:01 am

Im thinking of getting a Japanese LP... :ph34r:

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:14 am

tribi9 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:01 am
Im thinking of getting a Japanese LP... :ph34r:
One of those Orvilles?
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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Fiddy » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:29 am

^

I've been looking at a few different ones. A Greco EG-800, a Burny and an Orville..

But im also looking at some Thunderbirds, pretty much the same brands as above. So, im at that undecided stage where I don't know, which one im going to go for.. The bass or the guitar.

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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:58 am

tribi9 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:29 am
^

I've been looking at a few different ones. A Greco EG-800, a Burny and an Orville..

But im also looking at some Thunderbirds, pretty much the same brands as above. So, im at that undecided stage where I don't know, which one im going to go for.. The bass or the guitar.
One of the reasons I ask is I was kind of considering one of those Orville Les Pauls and wondering if I would be happy with an Orville Thunderbird recently.

I learned that the hierarchy of Orvilles is that "Orville By Gibson" is the best, then the ones with stamped serial numbers, then the ones with just stickers there.

I learned that here.

Regarding the Orville Thunderbirds, I looked into those also, and they are probably pretty different from the modern Gibson ones like I ended up buying. I'm pretty sure that they both have the same nine-ply neck through construction, although verify that, because I had read somewhere that Orvilles might be glued in neck. But I don't tend to believe that.

However, it looks to me like the Orvilles have Alnico pickups instead of the modern ceramic kinds that Gibson uses now.

I got my Gibson Thunderbird for about $1200, though, which isn't that different from where an Orville lives. And so I decided that considering I had no idea if I would want to keep it or not, I thought that it is always easier to sell a Gibson than an Orville.

Hope some of this helps... I just happened to be on an Orville thing recently.

A quick look at Greco and Burny Firebirds shows that neither are neck through construction, so they are just Firebird shaped objects to me.

I thought some of the Orville Les Pauls looked pretty sharp. I was wondering if it would be a good way to get into the Custom level, mainly I like those "fretless wonder" necks that Customs (and some Deluxes) have and wanted to know if the Orvilles also had that.

I'm never a huge fan of the "lawsuit" Japanese guitars like a lot of folks here are, but I can imagine that one would do better with a lawsuit Les Paul type guitar rather than a lawsuit Firebird, Les Pauls are cheaper to make and far more popular than Firebirds are, so your money would probably go further with one of those.
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Re: Current Gibson Les Pauls

Post by Fiddy » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:26 am

Yeah, i knew that Orville by Gibson were the better ones. Although ive read that their Achilles heel are the electronics.

Im okay with Grecos and Burnys not being neck through construction. To me playability is the most important thing. Greco has never disappointed me in that regard.

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