Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by hulakatt » Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:26 am

MechaBulletBill wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:31 am
top wrapping at the stopbar seems like compensating for an incorrect neck angle and the problems that causes. part of me (and i'm sure part of many offset fans that use the stock floating offset bridges!) like the idea of just sticking to the intended use for these things. top wrapping is not, as far as i know, the intended way to string up one of these guitars.
How is top wrapping compensating for an incorrect neck angle on an SG? The angle of the neck does not affect the angle of the strings after the bridge and the angle after the bridge does not need adjusted because of a lack of tension (like on the Jazzmasters and Jaguars) but because tunings stability is compromised by the strings hitting the bridge itself after the saddles. The ToM/Stopbar combo was designed to have both be adjustable so that the strings would not be interfered with in the space between them, top wrapping is just another way to do that consistently and more stably.
She/Her

User avatar
MechaBulletBill
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2813
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:16 am
Location: UK

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by MechaBulletBill » Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:49 am

sorry, i forgot to refer to the oft-repeated wisdom of "deck the tailpiece for more tone" or however people phrase it. but you're right, they're both adjustable so that you should never need to top wrap unless you somehow run out of adjustment room.

i made that comment a bit too early and hayfevery for my brain to do smart thing but i have seen a number of modern gibson types where everything at the bridge/tailpiece end is adjusted much too high, which suggests too steep of a neck angle. but then again, it's been a while since i was in a guitar shop trying stuff out.

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by hulakatt » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:03 am

Here's the angle on my SG Standard with top wrapping. Still a sharper angle than on a JM/Jag and plenty enough downforce to keep strings from popping out of saddles but high enough clearance to keep the strings from touching the bridge itself. I have more than enough thread to wrap normally and I still have tons of thread and height adjustability on the ToM as well.

But yeah, 90% of the time there's a tuning issue on any Gibson, it really is the nut and Gibson's are super picky about the nuts being cut just right.

Image
She/Her

User avatar
cincinnatiharry
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:53 pm
Location: Dingle, Co. Kerry, Ireland

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by cincinnatiharry » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 am

MechaBulletBill wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:31 am
top wrapping at the stopbar seems like compensating for an incorrect neck angle and the problems that causes. part of me (and i'm sure part of many offset fans that use the stock floating offset bridges!) like the idea of just sticking to the intended use for these things. top wrapping is not, as far as i know, the intended way to string up one of these guitars.

but whatever works works!
cincinnatiharry wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:16 am
used a wound 3rd and 10s flat wound strings. Round wound strings were not a thing until the early to mid 70s so until then all strings were flat wounds. Next, all string sets had a wound 3rd. It wasn’t until Earnie Ball came around swapping individual strings in banjo string sets for guitar string sets did we have a unwound 3rd.

These guitars were designed using a wound 3rd and flat wounds.
i don't know that they were specifically designed for flats or roundwounds as both were available for as long as these types of bridges have been used.
Incorrect. The Tune-o-matic bridge was invented in the 1950s. Round wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s. Look it up if you don't believe me.
"some misguided Marin county hot-tubber"

User avatar
MechaBulletBill
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2813
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:16 am
Location: UK

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by MechaBulletBill » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:00 am

thanks harry, but i have looked it up actually!

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by JSett » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 am

cincinnatiharry wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 am
Round wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
Lol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Century
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5984
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:52 am

There really shouldn’t be a massive problem.

You have a lot of detail about how the guitar was set up and strung, but (in post 1 at least) I didn’t see much about how you’ve seated (“stretched”) the strings.

Grab any string and pull directly outward… like you’re pulling the center of the string as far away from the fretboard as possible (without hurting yourself or the string). Give it 3 or 4 good yanks.

Does the tuning change (go flat) after that?

If so, it’s not likely to be a setup or friction issue—something hasn’t been fully seated somewhere.

In that case, repeat the above process (retuning after each cycle) until it stops moving, then tune up and enjoy your guitar

User avatar
BoringPostcards
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7046
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:50 am
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by BoringPostcards » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:04 am

My SG Standard has the slim 60s neck on it, and It can be sketchy with temperature changes.
It will also wobble in and out of pitch if I shake it around. It goes back to pitch though.
It is otherwise very stable. I stretch my strings and I have my stoptail set up the standard way; no top wrap.
The G string gave me issues initially, but I switched to Rotosound strings from the Gibson brand strings and had no issues afterwards.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

User avatar
del
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1585
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:57 am
Location: rusted jack-knife

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by del » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:31 am

I have an SG Classic. I top wrap, stretch the strings a bit when they're new (I typically use 11-gauge GHS Burnished Ncikel Rockers), and haven't had any problems. I'll tune/retune after a vigorous playing or having the guitar sit through temp and humidity changes over time, but it seems totally normal to me.

Could it be that a tuner is having trouble and slipping? Or a tight/jagged nut?
The Kinks - The Fall – The Bad Seeds - Spacemen 3 - The Gories - Royal Trux
"The idea is to put a pick in one hand and a guitar in the other and with a tiny movement rule the world." - David Fair

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5984
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:44 am

Are there any guitars that aren’t “sketchy with temperature changes,” though?

They’re made of wood. It’s a material that moves with temperature variations.

I’m always touching up tuning during the course of a set as my body heats up and as the lights and movement make the onstage environment warmer.

User avatar
luau
Admin
Admin
Posts: 10019
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:07 am
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by luau » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:02 pm

While we're on the topic, I recently acquired a string stretcher and it really works well.

User avatar
BoringPostcards
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7046
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:50 am
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by BoringPostcards » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:35 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:44 am
Are there any guitars that aren’t “sketchy with temperature changes,” though?

They’re made of wood. It’s a material that moves with temperature variations.

I’m always touching up tuning during the course of a set as my body heats up and as the lights and movement make the onstage environment warmer.
Indeed they all do to some extent, but my SG Standard is the worst of the bunch. My Mustang and Jazzmaster really make the SG look bad. The SG will vary with small temperature changes, which won’t affect the Fenders whatsoever.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5984
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:55 pm

My most squirrelly guitar by far (in terms of stability) is a ‘73 Tele Thinline.

It’s got the bendiest, softest maple neck I’ve ever seen. Every change in the seasons needs half a turn or more of truss rod in one direction or the other, or it becomes totally unplayable. It needs more attention than any other guitar I own (30+ of them).

But as long as I keep up with those seasonal adjustments, it’s fine. It never gives me anything I’d characterize as tuning issues on the minute-to-minute level.

I feel like I’ve learned that stability is only barely correlated with wood species, and is not really correlated with make/brand at all. In the case of an individual instrument/player combination that’s not working, I feel like there’s usually some other explanation for the incompatibility.

I once acquired (from my favorite vintage dealer) a really nice old Epiphone Sorrento that had been returned by the previous purchaser. He had apparently reported a whole litany of tuning and playability issues, none of which the shop could reproduce, and none of which I have ever experienced in 8 years of owning it.

I feel like sometimes an instrument and a player just don’t get along for some mysterious reason

User avatar
cincinnatiharry
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:53 pm
Location: Dingle, Co. Kerry, Ireland

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by cincinnatiharry » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:49 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 am
cincinnatiharry wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 am
Round wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
Lol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Century
LOL not remotely the same thing or applicable. Electric guitars didn’t get round wound strings until the early 1970s. Nobody made them until then. Prior to that Ernie Ball would sell his “slinky set” that would get a banjo string thrown in to replace the flat wound 3rd.

So when the golden era Gibsons and Fenders were invented it was expected that one would play flats, they even included an extra set of flat wounds in the case.

LOL.
"some misguided Marin county hot-tubber"

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?

Post by JSett » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:54 am

cincinnatiharry wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:49 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 am
cincinnatiharry wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 am
Round wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
Lol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Century
LOL not remotely the same thing or applicable. Electric guitars didn’t get round wound strings until the early 1970s. Nobody made them until then. Prior to that Ernie Ball would sell his “slinky set” that would get a banjo string thrown in to replace the flat wound 3rd.

So when the golden era Gibsons and Fenders were invented it was expected that one would play flats, they even included an extra set of flat wounds in the case.

LOL.
Fender Telecasters shipped from the factory with roundwound 13's in the 50's

lol
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

Post Reply