How is top wrapping compensating for an incorrect neck angle on an SG? The angle of the neck does not affect the angle of the strings after the bridge and the angle after the bridge does not need adjusted because of a lack of tension (like on the Jazzmasters and Jaguars) but because tunings stability is compromised by the strings hitting the bridge itself after the saddles. The ToM/Stopbar combo was designed to have both be adjustable so that the strings would not be interfered with in the space between them, top wrapping is just another way to do that consistently and more stably.MechaBulletBill wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:31 amtop wrapping at the stopbar seems like compensating for an incorrect neck angle and the problems that causes. part of me (and i'm sure part of many offset fans that use the stock floating offset bridges!) like the idea of just sticking to the intended use for these things. top wrapping is not, as far as i know, the intended way to string up one of these guitars.
Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
sorry, i forgot to refer to the oft-repeated wisdom of "deck the tailpiece for more tone" or however people phrase it. but you're right, they're both adjustable so that you should never need to top wrap unless you somehow run out of adjustment room.
i made that comment a bit too early and hayfevery for my brain to do smart thing but i have seen a number of modern gibson types where everything at the bridge/tailpiece end is adjusted much too high, which suggests too steep of a neck angle. but then again, it's been a while since i was in a guitar shop trying stuff out.
i made that comment a bit too early and hayfevery for my brain to do smart thing but i have seen a number of modern gibson types where everything at the bridge/tailpiece end is adjusted much too high, which suggests too steep of a neck angle. but then again, it's been a while since i was in a guitar shop trying stuff out.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Here's the angle on my SG Standard with top wrapping. Still a sharper angle than on a JM/Jag and plenty enough downforce to keep strings from popping out of saddles but high enough clearance to keep the strings from touching the bridge itself. I have more than enough thread to wrap normally and I still have tons of thread and height adjustability on the ToM as well.
But yeah, 90% of the time there's a tuning issue on any Gibson, it really is the nut and Gibson's are super picky about the nuts being cut just right.
But yeah, 90% of the time there's a tuning issue on any Gibson, it really is the nut and Gibson's are super picky about the nuts being cut just right.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Incorrect. The Tune-o-matic bridge was invented in the 1950s. Round wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s. Look it up if you don't believe me.MechaBulletBill wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:31 amtop wrapping at the stopbar seems like compensating for an incorrect neck angle and the problems that causes. part of me (and i'm sure part of many offset fans that use the stock floating offset bridges!) like the idea of just sticking to the intended use for these things. top wrapping is not, as far as i know, the intended way to string up one of these guitars.
but whatever works works!i don't know that they were specifically designed for flats or roundwounds as both were available for as long as these types of bridges have been used.cincinnatiharry wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:16 amused a wound 3rd and 10s flat wound strings. Round wound strings were not a thing until the early to mid 70s so until then all strings were flat wounds. Next, all string sets had a wound 3rd. It wasn’t until Earnie Ball came around swapping individual strings in banjo string sets for guitar string sets did we have a unwound 3rd.
These guitars were designed using a wound 3rd and flat wounds.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
thanks harry, but i have looked it up actually!
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Lol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Centurycincinnatiharry wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 amRound wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
There really shouldn’t be a massive problem.
You have a lot of detail about how the guitar was set up and strung, but (in post 1 at least) I didn’t see much about how you’ve seated (“stretched”) the strings.
Grab any string and pull directly outward… like you’re pulling the center of the string as far away from the fretboard as possible (without hurting yourself or the string). Give it 3 or 4 good yanks.
Does the tuning change (go flat) after that?
If so, it’s not likely to be a setup or friction issue—something hasn’t been fully seated somewhere.
In that case, repeat the above process (retuning after each cycle) until it stops moving, then tune up and enjoy your guitar
You have a lot of detail about how the guitar was set up and strung, but (in post 1 at least) I didn’t see much about how you’ve seated (“stretched”) the strings.
Grab any string and pull directly outward… like you’re pulling the center of the string as far away from the fretboard as possible (without hurting yourself or the string). Give it 3 or 4 good yanks.
Does the tuning change (go flat) after that?
If so, it’s not likely to be a setup or friction issue—something hasn’t been fully seated somewhere.
In that case, repeat the above process (retuning after each cycle) until it stops moving, then tune up and enjoy your guitar
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
My SG Standard has the slim 60s neck on it, and It can be sketchy with temperature changes.
It will also wobble in and out of pitch if I shake it around. It goes back to pitch though.
It is otherwise very stable. I stretch my strings and I have my stoptail set up the standard way; no top wrap.
The G string gave me issues initially, but I switched to Rotosound strings from the Gibson brand strings and had no issues afterwards.
It will also wobble in and out of pitch if I shake it around. It goes back to pitch though.
It is otherwise very stable. I stretch my strings and I have my stoptail set up the standard way; no top wrap.
The G string gave me issues initially, but I switched to Rotosound strings from the Gibson brand strings and had no issues afterwards.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
I have an SG Classic. I top wrap, stretch the strings a bit when they're new (I typically use 11-gauge GHS Burnished Ncikel Rockers), and haven't had any problems. I'll tune/retune after a vigorous playing or having the guitar sit through temp and humidity changes over time, but it seems totally normal to me.
Could it be that a tuner is having trouble and slipping? Or a tight/jagged nut?
Could it be that a tuner is having trouble and slipping? Or a tight/jagged nut?
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Are there any guitars that aren’t “sketchy with temperature changes,” though?
They’re made of wood. It’s a material that moves with temperature variations.
I’m always touching up tuning during the course of a set as my body heats up and as the lights and movement make the onstage environment warmer.
They’re made of wood. It’s a material that moves with temperature variations.
I’m always touching up tuning during the course of a set as my body heats up and as the lights and movement make the onstage environment warmer.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
While we're on the topic, I recently acquired a string stretcher and it really works well.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Indeed they all do to some extent, but my SG Standard is the worst of the bunch. My Mustang and Jazzmaster really make the SG look bad. The SG will vary with small temperature changes, which won’t affect the Fenders whatsoever.øøøøøøø wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:44 amAre there any guitars that aren’t “sketchy with temperature changes,” though?
They’re made of wood. It’s a material that moves with temperature variations.
I’m always touching up tuning during the course of a set as my body heats up and as the lights and movement make the onstage environment warmer.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
My most squirrelly guitar by far (in terms of stability) is a ‘73 Tele Thinline.
It’s got the bendiest, softest maple neck I’ve ever seen. Every change in the seasons needs half a turn or more of truss rod in one direction or the other, or it becomes totally unplayable. It needs more attention than any other guitar I own (30+ of them).
But as long as I keep up with those seasonal adjustments, it’s fine. It never gives me anything I’d characterize as tuning issues on the minute-to-minute level.
I feel like I’ve learned that stability is only barely correlated with wood species, and is not really correlated with make/brand at all. In the case of an individual instrument/player combination that’s not working, I feel like there’s usually some other explanation for the incompatibility.
I once acquired (from my favorite vintage dealer) a really nice old Epiphone Sorrento that had been returned by the previous purchaser. He had apparently reported a whole litany of tuning and playability issues, none of which the shop could reproduce, and none of which I have ever experienced in 8 years of owning it.
I feel like sometimes an instrument and a player just don’t get along for some mysterious reason
It’s got the bendiest, softest maple neck I’ve ever seen. Every change in the seasons needs half a turn or more of truss rod in one direction or the other, or it becomes totally unplayable. It needs more attention than any other guitar I own (30+ of them).
But as long as I keep up with those seasonal adjustments, it’s fine. It never gives me anything I’d characterize as tuning issues on the minute-to-minute level.
I feel like I’ve learned that stability is only barely correlated with wood species, and is not really correlated with make/brand at all. In the case of an individual instrument/player combination that’s not working, I feel like there’s usually some other explanation for the incompatibility.
I once acquired (from my favorite vintage dealer) a really nice old Epiphone Sorrento that had been returned by the previous purchaser. He had apparently reported a whole litany of tuning and playability issues, none of which the shop could reproduce, and none of which I have ever experienced in 8 years of owning it.
I feel like sometimes an instrument and a player just don’t get along for some mysterious reason
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
LOL not remotely the same thing or applicable. Electric guitars didn’t get round wound strings until the early 1970s. Nobody made them until then. Prior to that Ernie Ball would sell his “slinky set” that would get a banjo string thrown in to replace the flat wound 3rd.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 amLol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Centurycincinnatiharry wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 amRound wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
So when the golden era Gibsons and Fenders were invented it was expected that one would play flats, they even included an extra set of flat wounds in the case.
LOL.
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Re: Gibson SG tuning stability tips?
Fender Telecasters shipped from the factory with roundwound 13's in the 50'scincinnatiharry wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:49 amLOL not remotely the same thing or applicable. Electric guitars didn’t get round wound strings until the early 1970s. Nobody made them until then. Prior to that Ernie Ball would sell his “slinky set” that would get a banjo string thrown in to replace the flat wound 3rd.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 amLol. Roundwound strings were invented in the 17th Centurycincinnatiharry wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 amRound wound strings were not invented until the early 1970s.
So when the golden era Gibsons and Fenders were invented it was expected that one would play flats, they even included an extra set of flat wounds in the case.
LOL.
lol
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