Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

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lastlol
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Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by lastlol » Mon May 09, 2022 7:41 am

Did someone try a wide range reissue, and how is the sound ? Because I have an AO 70's Tele with the Cunife wide range humbucker, and I find that the pickup is very soft sounding, especially on the low E and the A. That's a bit disappointing, I was hoping for more clarity and definition. And the wide range pickup magnets seem to be very weak, at least compared to the bridge pickup magnets.
Is this normal ?

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by JSett » Mon May 09, 2022 9:38 am

You need to play around with the heights of the pole pieces more....there's a sweet spot where the notes seem to 'bloom' and it takes a bit of time. Once you're there though, they're great.
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by timtam » Mon May 09, 2022 6:48 pm

Telenator on TDPRI has posted a detailed procedure for optimum adjustment of CuNiFe WRHBs.
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by lastlol » Mon May 09, 2022 10:07 pm

Thanks, I'll try his procedure. I was surprised to see how weak are the threaded magnets compared to other pickups, and how the sound is "muddy" on the low strings. Can you confirm that the Cunife magnets are weak ? I was afraid that the pickup didn't have correctly charged magnets

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by JSett » Mon May 09, 2022 10:27 pm

They shouldn't sound 'muddy' - at least no more so than is to be expected from a neck position humbucker. WRHB's aren't particularly hot by todays standards at ~10k and should, in my experience, be approached with the expectation that they sound more like a fat, hum cancelling, single-coil.

Put the extra time into getting it all dialed in...it'll be worth it I expect.

Something I will ask though. Did you buy it new or used? I have heard more than a few stories of people swapping in the old Fender WRHB reissues (pre-CuNiFe) before selling them on. If you bought it used it might be worth just checking it's the right one in there.
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by lastlol » Mon May 09, 2022 10:42 pm

I bought the guitar new. The pickup do not sound at all like a single coil, especially on the low strings. The low E and A have a very soft attack, and no twang at all. They lack definition. I checked the pots, they are correct 1meg pots for the neck pickup

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by NICQ » Mon May 09, 2022 11:23 pm

I have 3 real vintage WRHBs, 2 Fender Reissues from a Lee Ranaldo Jazzmaster (think they still are humbuckers but Fender called them "reworked" - so maybe not the same as in their Tele Reissues), a Creamery AlnicoV WRHB and also bought a new CuNiFe Reissue (Neck) from Fender...

The original 70s WRHBs sound a bit clearer and defined compared to the CuNiFe Reissues - still similar response but just a tad "slimmer" (maybe because the Magnets are 50 years old and weaker)
The Fender "humbucker Reissues" from the Lee Ranaldo JM sound more scooped ... very similar to the Alnico Reissues (TheCreamery) somehow - Humbucker character but very scooped

The original vintage and the CuNiFe Reissues both have 10k DC but to me the CuNiFe Reissues somehow have more mids and sound fuller
I had one in a Tele Deluxe in the neck position and it was almost honky and too mid strong - was surprised and not happy to be honest
Played around with the screw heights and Telenators instructions - still, to me they are too mid heavy

Finally put a scooped Lee Ranaldo Reissue WRHB in the neck (scooped) and put the CuNiFe in the bridge where the more mid-rangey sound fits quite well ...

I'm still a bit puzzled and was reading a lot of reviews - escpecially people saying that their CuNiFe Reissues sound just like the Originals ... not really in my limited experience. But I'm no expert and could be doing something wrong - who knows ... I have 1meg pots in all of them and when switching them around in a Tele Deluxe that was my impression.

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by JSett » Mon May 09, 2022 11:47 pm

Well, maybe your expectations are a little off then. I'm sure you're well aware that neck pickups are duller than a bridge, and a humbucker (even a WRHB) will be pretty mellow and soft in comparison to a bridge pickup...especially a spanky Telecaster one!
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by timtam » Tue May 10, 2022 12:48 am

lastlol wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 10:07 pm
Thanks, I'll try his procedure. I was surprised to see how weak are the threaded magnets compared to other pickups, and how the sound is "muddy" on the low strings. Can you confirm that the Cunife magnets are weak ? I was afraid that the pickup didn't have correctly charged magnets
CuNiFe in WRHBs isn't "weak" IIRC, but mine is an original. Magnets aren't the only factor in output ... although the fact your problem is only with some strings does suggest that magnet adjustment may indeed be your issue. The CuNiFe WRHB I bought secondhand around 1980 (for peanuts) was recently measured with a WT10 magnetometer - and it was right where it should be on all poles, so no losses. In general I think magnet/pickup experts are dismissive of notions that pickup magnets might commonly lose charge over typical pickup lifetimes.

Another factor that has been reported in WRHBs that have changed hands is people supposedly removing the poles and putting them back in with some wrong facing polarities, which does play havoc with output.

I don't know how the new ones are charged, but bottom left of this diagram is how it was done in the originals (from Duchossoir tele book p61).
Image
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by tammyw » Tue May 10, 2022 4:17 am

I currently have a guitar with the new CuNiFe pickups that I haven't spent any time dialing it in because it needs some other work. But just plugging it in with the way it came (poorly set up), I can totally get the OP's impression.

I think there's still some room for improvement from adjusting heights and poles, but also my personal opinion (having used a couple newer sets, but never vintage ones) is that they're a bit overhyped or oversold with descriptions I wouldn't necessarily agree with. I mean I think they're fine as their own thing, just not that magical or anything.

FWIW with an uncalibrated meter, I see about 50-60mT on the CuNiFe neck pickup poles. In comparison, a Bootstrap Jaguar pickup is reading around 100mT, while a Seymour Duncan humbucker is around 40mT.
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by timtam » Tue May 10, 2022 5:15 am

tammyw wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:17 am
FWIW with an uncalibrated meter, I see about 50-60mT on the CuNiFe neck pickup poles.
IIRC that's what my original 1970's WRHB measured on the WT10A. I recall most sources suggest that's what the originals should measure.
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by garyfanclub » Tue May 10, 2022 10:28 am

Yeah hmmm… I’ve got a vintage WRHB in my 75 Tele Custom (neck position) and I would not under any circumstances describe it as *weak* or particularly *clear* sounding. It’s a big, fat wooly neck humbucker tone. Clean it’s a lovely piano-like tone that’s great for jazzy runs, with dirty it’s classic “woman tone” territory.

Lots of low end, so it can be muddy if you’re not careful. I’m scratching my head at the *clear* description, I just don’t really hear that with most any neck humbucker to be completely honest. Maybe some mini’s?

It is a *way loud* pickup compared to the Tele bridge pickup, not dissimilar from a 70s Guild HB-1. If it’s weak there’s something wrong, definitely get it checked out.

Hope this helps!

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by timtam » Tue May 10, 2022 7:42 pm

I do think of the original WRHB as clear and chimy. I'm always reminded of this original Tele Custom's neck WRHB in the sparse 'Le Vent Nous Portera' by French band Noir Desir in 2002 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRwtpJNnQg
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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by lastlol » Wed May 11, 2022 3:20 am

The pickup itself is not weak at all, but the magnets are quite "weak" compared to the bridge pickup ones. But I cannot measure the field.
Concerning the clarity, the pickup is quite articulate and clear on the mid and high strings, but very woolly on the low E and the A. I was hoping for some more twang on low strings. On these it sounds like a standard humbucker, but I still have to set the pickup correctly.
The middle position though is great and full sounding !
(I don't know if my last sentence is correct english, sorry !)

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Re: Fender Wide Range reissue in AO 70's Tele

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu May 12, 2022 6:29 am

CuNiFe’s desirable property in the 70s was that it was less mechanically brittle than AlNiCo and therefore was easier to machine for threads.

Its ferromagnetic properties are weaker than the more common magnetic alloys, which could at least theoretically affect pickup output.

In 2022 machining threads onto AlNiCo is more reliable. Lollar uses AlNiCo in their Regal WRHB, which to me is a sensible choice—not a 1:1 “vintage clone,” but it definitely makes a good pickup. I can relate to the ethos of “if we no longer need CuNiFe’s mechanical properties to successfully manufacture the parts, why accept its performance trade-offs?”

FWIW I have four Regals in two guitars and have never adjusted a polepiece… they sounded great to me out of the box so I never bothered tweaking

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