RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get? GOT ONE! (Pics on p2)

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RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get? GOT ONE! (Pics on p2)

Post by SignoftheDragon » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:24 pm

Basically what the title says-

I flipped a BilT XII for more than I thought, so now my budget might be swole enough to spring for an actual Rickenbacker.

I've plinked on some difficult ones in stores over the years, but last year I picked up a walnut one at the local GC and it kinda felt like... magic?

My usual tastes have centered on offset-type 12-strings, (Surfcasters, EXIIs, BilT, my Texas Toast build, etc.) but I've always dug the looks of a Ric.

I've never gotten into the details of what the different models offer, but here are some preferences:
I Like the inlaid necks- 'almost' sharkfins?
I like the pointier versions of the big body- not quite so much the squashy rounded ones.
I also like the Tom Petty looking solid body ones.
I have decently big hands, so no super narrow necks please.
I don't know JACK about Ric pickups- what should I be expecting?
I think I'd prefer vintage to the new ones... maybe?

What should I concentrate my search for?
Last edited by SignoftheDragon on Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:53 pm

here are some preferences:
I Like the inlaid necks- 'almost' sharkfins?
Those are mostly found on the 360 models. Depending on the year the can be full width or not.

I like the pointier versions of the big body- not quite so much the squashy rounded ones.
These are the 330 models and the vintage style 360 models - 360v64 and 360c63.

I also like the Tom Petty looking solid body ones.
I have decently big hands, so no super narrow necks please.
I “think” the Tom Petty solid body has slightly wider neck.

I don't know JACK about Ric pickups- what should I be expecting?
There are 3 types - vintage wound “Toaster” pickups. Low gain, need a compressor, but paired with a good compressor, you instantly get “that sound.” The modern wound “Toaster” pickups- vary from lower gain to almost the same gain as the Hi-gains depending on the year. The low gain moderns sound great to me and need less/no compression to sound good. The Hi-gains are good for a clean, crunchy modern rock, power pop-punk sound, but not so good for chime. Compressor doesn’t do much here. Less of a one trick pony than the low gain vintage, but not as good as the modern Toasters. And you won’t really get “that sound” out of them, but they still sound more like a Rickenbacker then a Gretsch or P-90.

I think I'd prefer vintage to the new ones... maybe?
Rickenbackers have been fairly consistent over the years. There is no Baldwin or Norlin era to avoid. Rickenbacker players tend to be purists and complain about any minor changes, so Rickenbacker has to build to suit them. Other than white binding going yellow and some finish chips, there’s not much difference between my ‘73 and my ‘97.

What should I concentrate my search for.

A 360v64-12 or 360c63-12, unless you prefer the Tom Petty. I think one of the other models has a wider neck, but not sure which. 380? 450?

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by cestlamort » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:45 pm

I Like the inlaid necks- 'almost' sharkfins?
I like the pointier versions of the big body- not quite so much the squashy rounded ones.
I also like the Tom Petty looking solid body ones.
I have decently big hands, so no super narrow necks please.
I don't know JACK about Ric pickups- what should I be expecting?
I think I'd prefer vintage to the new ones... maybe?
As Adrian mentioned, the 360s (or 370s) are the ones with the inlays.

(not so) quick rundown:
Models of 12 strings
Solid (all have fewer frets):
620: small solid body, deluxe appropriations (fin inlays, binding, ric-o-sound)
610: short-lived budget version of 620
660: the Tom Petty model. Basically: a 620 with toasters and a wider neck. (and the signature ones are $$) (Petty said something to the effect "they did my signature run, and they kept on making it without my name")
450: precursor to the 620 series

Semi-hollow:
360: the "deluxe" model, binding, stereo (ric-o-sound), fins, with rounded shape from mid 60s on. Recent ones (2007 on) have full width inlays.
360 old style, etc. Various versions of the original 360 model. 360c63 (current) or 360v64 (a bit older) are the two most common ones. Basically a 360 in a 330 shape. Note that the reissue style ones may have fewer frets than most current Rickenbackers.
370: like a 360 but with another pickup.
381: the super deluxe model.

1993plus: if you took one of the old style 360s (shorter scale) but with three toaster pickups, an F hole and wider neck. (I think the neck is just one from a 660).

330: "budget" version of a 360: same shape as the original 360s, but dots and no binding. No Ric-o-sound.
340: a 330 with an extra pickup.

The necks are all pretty narrow (except the 660 and 1993plus), often with the nut cut to crowd the strings even more. I believe the newer ones have a nut with updated spacing (which you can order separately). To me, the unbound necks (330) feel wider, but that may just be the individual nuts, too.

Recent 12 strings have cut outs in the headstock (rather than just the carve outs).

Most (or all?) have 6 saddle bridges, but 12 saddle is also available.

Fuzzjunkie got it with the pickups: "hi gains" are the standard pickups. "scatter wound" toasters = vintage style (relatively recent). "hot" toasters are basically hi gains but look like toasters (through the 90s or so). I had some SUPER hot hi gains (14k or so) on my 90s 330/12 and switched them to hot toasters (which improved things). I haven't actually used the scatter wound toasters myself though.
Current hi gains also have adjustable pole pieces.

I have had a black 90s 330/12 and 1989 370/12 (both from back when these were cheap-ish, the latter is an odd model) and a fireglo/"salmonglo" 330/12 (2008?) for a while, and I really like both the 330s I've had (maybe more than the fancier 370). I think the cut outs in the headstock do look funny though.

People swear by TI (Thomastik Infeld) flats for Rickenbackers but I'm not a fan (I'm also not going for that sound). I personally like the Rickenbacker branded ones, even though they seem to suddenly sound like crap out of the blue every few months or so. Weird. May be a seasonal thing, but a new set usually fixes it.

I'd try to try a few out in person, especially if you're curious about the 620 or 660 (Petty), as they're not big guitars.

No real difference in quality / years, other than cosmetics (headstock shape or cut outs, body shape, etc) unless you go back before 1983 or so. Also, all will have the octave pairs reversed from "normal" 12 strings. I think it's cool, but some folks (such as Marty Willson-Piper) flip them. One note (not for Signofthedragon) is that you can always take the octave strings off and effectively have a six string, then put them back on when you want to go to 12-string-land. (In other words, if I only had one Rickenbacker in my life, I'd probably have a 12 string and use it as both).

It also seems that the great guitar inflation of 2020-1 has made them more expensive, too, but I think deals can still be had.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by andy_tchp » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:54 pm

620s suck. One of the shittiest guitars I've ever owned.

Flipside; I was able to do a straight trade for a brand new CIJ Jazzmaster.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by Fiddy » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:45 pm

I really like 620s. I like the shape. I sold mine for dirt cheap like 15 years ago. Mine was only a 6 string though.

Find a Greco 12 string copy.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by Cornelius Plum » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:04 am

I like 360s and 330s: they sound janglier and thicker to my ears than the solid bodies. These two pretty much sound the same, and they have the same type of necks. But if you haven't already, you really should try one before you buy it. I love them, my second guitar was a 330/12, so I'm used to them, but many guitar players find them hard to play.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:27 am

Waitaminute- Are all Rics short scale?

I may be re-thinking this, as I've NEVER ended up keeping a shortscale 12.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by Cornelius Plum » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:36 am

SignoftheDragon wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:27 am
Waitaminute- Are all Rics short scale?

I may be re-thinking this, as I've NEVER ended up keeping a shortscale 12.
Most Ricks are 24 3/4''. Some are shorter than that, but I don't remember if they make 12 string models shorter than 24 3/4''.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by cestlamort » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:11 am

Cornelius Plum wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:36 am
SignoftheDragon wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:27 am
Waitaminute- Are all Rics short scale?

I may be re-thinking this, as I've NEVER ended up keeping a shortscale 12.
Most Ricks are 24 3/4''. Some are shorter than that, but I don't remember if they make 12 string models shorter than 24 3/4''.
All are the same scale but either 24 (modern) or 21 (vintage ri) frets. Note that there is also a short scale Lennon style 12 but those are rare and $$. And tiny.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:02 am

Mmm- Okay. I know I don't mind playing on a 24.75 scale, I've just never bonded with one enough to keep it around.

The ones I've owned:
Schecter Corsair 12
Schecter TS-H 12 (I've had 3 of these over the years)
Eastwood Surfcaster 12 re-make (3 of these as well)
DiPinto Mach XII
Taylor T5C-12

Now, a few of these guitars were bleh, most fell into the 'pretty good' range, but a few of them were actually quite stellar- The Taylor in particular was quite a beast. I think it's likely that they just don't switch well into my live setup vs. my main guitars, (all 25.5 scale) and I don't like the 'reset' of my muscle memory that happens with the switch- especially on stage.

Back to the Rics- So, my preferences basically are leading me to choose between the 2 wider-necked models:

The 660- seen here in the WORST color combo possible:
Image
(shades of uncleaned bathroom seems to be the color palette there)

or the 1993 plus- shown here in a much-more-palatable tuxedo scheme:
Image

Now, I'm still in theoretical debate here, as I'd definitely have to play one in-person before dropping Rick-money on one, but here's the score so far:

Wider neck: Check, and check
Inlay Sharkfins: Check, and check
Good body shape: Check, and check
"R" Tailpiece: 660 Tom Petty only- need to decide if that's important enough to fuss about.

Trying to decide how I feel about the f-hole and the 3rd pickup on the 1993+

So, so far I'm leaning slightly toward the 660 if I can find one in a non-offensive color.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by cestlamort » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:18 pm

Sounds like a good plan to play one first, especially at this price point.

I'd also suggest playing the 360/12, 330/12 and 620/12 models, as the wider neck (and other Rickenbacker bling) is essentially a thousand dollar upcharge from the "normal" models. Note that the 1993plus/660 both have the shorter (21 fret) necks. I've only happened to play a 660/6 and the small body, wide neck, short neck, was not what I was after.

From my experience the 620/6 I had was much, much smaller than I'd imagined (even if the same scale as a 330, it felt like a mustang after playing a Jazzmaster, to put it in OSG terms). Tangent: I then traded it for a CIJ CAR JM and cash. (I then sold the JM soon thereafter. I had gotten the 620 as a partial trade for a thin skin shoreline gold jaguar that I probably just should have kept in retrospect).

My 12-string exposure is nowhere near yours, but of the 12 string electrics I've had over the years (Vox phantom, schecter csh, Eko hollow body, Venus, Hagstrom, Rickenbacker 330, 330, 370, and a too-brief trial with an old starfire), I've kept two Rics and only regret parting with the Guild Starfire and to a lesser extent the Hagstrom and Eko (which was an amazing cheap guitar).

p.s. the R tailpiece looks cool, but it's not great quality, honestly.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by Cornelius Plum » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:48 pm

Has anyone played the new Reverend Airwave? I've seen videos of it, and it seemed nice.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:16 pm

If I don't end up getting (or bonding with) a Ric, There's a few crowding the top of the 'try next' list:

Reverend Airwave 12
Rivolta Combinata 12
Vintage Yamaha SG 12s (Several to hopefully choose from)
Maybe a Guild as well?

And some cheapies that will 'fill in the gaps' on the way to more pricey ones:

Eastwood Sidejack XII DLX
Yamaha Pacifica 12 (I have one of these on the way)
Danelectro 12 (one of these is on the way too)

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by andy_tchp » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:18 pm

You don't want the "R" tailpiece.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

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Re: RIC 12-strings. Which one should I get?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:16 am

spend some time playing one before you buy. I've always loved Ricks in theory. I have one in my shop now for a finish repair; of course I HAD to play it.
Image
I don't hate it, but...
Image
I like the one I built, with an extra wide neck, a lot better.
Rick necks are TINY and cramped- it's more than just the short scale; they're really narrow. I could get around it with my xxl/glove size 12 hands and those pickups sound dreamy and chimey as hell, but switching to mine, which has a 1-3/4' nut and 2-1/4" pocket, felt much more natural. I wish I could remember where I got that neck, I'd get another in a heartbeat and make more. at any rate, Rick necks really, really suck.

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