Which one gets the upgrades? EDIT: Poll is moot more information on page 3

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).

Which one?

AVRI Custom Telecaster
7
26%
Good old American Standard
9
33%
Black paisley on black Telecaster don't be an idiot
11
41%
 
Total votes: 27

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MayTheFuzzBeWithYou
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:43 am

I'd say - change both pickguards at the same time. We demand to see! :-P and the other upgrades...one guitar after another.

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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by BTL » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:06 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:43 am
[...] Firstly, I have found that with a set of Kinmans, an aluminum pick guard shield and full shielding in the guitar itself I can have an instrument that is simply dead quiet until a string generates some sound.

All of which would be useless if the pickups didn't sound very good, but they do. If you go to his website you'll be in for quite a sensory overload, but despite the endless hyperbole you are actually reading what turns out to be very accurate information.

[...] I was very surprised to find out that they were fantastic pickups in every way, much better than the AVRI pickups they replaced even if you discounted the noise free aspects of them.

Now, do they sound exactly like the real Alnico 5 pickups they replace? I don't really care all that much, honestly, I just want them to sound good. [...]
I agree, they sound great!

I have a slightly different/unconventional approach in that I use chimey, hum-canceling pickups in my all of my builds but explicitly avoid the S & T pickup form factor, pickguards, and cavity shielding altogether. My personal favorite is the Fralin Big Single, but I use either Gibson-style braided or Humbucker-style pickup leads on every pickup I install.

That approach along with my metal switch plates and pickup rings seems to yield a result similar to what you describe above. That said, I 100% appreciate what Kinman has accomplished, especially based on your direct experience.

Cheers!
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 am

BeeTL wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:06 am


I agree, they sound great!

I have a slightly different/unconventional approach in that I use chimey, hum-canceling pickups in my all of my builds but explicitly avoid the S & T pickup form factor, pickguards, and cavity shielding altogether. My personal favorite is the Fralin Big Single, but I use either Gibson-style braided or Humbucker-style pickup leads on every pickup I install.

That approach along with my metal switch plates and pickup rings seems to yield a result similar to what you describe above. That said, I 100% appreciate what Kinman has accomplished, especially based on your direct experience.

Cheers!
Ah, I see... I sort of wasn't paying attention there to who I was responding to, somehow I thought I might be talking with someone who didn't otherwise know much about Kinmans but I see that of course you do- my apologies. Maybe I'm just some Kinman cult evangelist at this point, who knows.

I took a look at your website to refresh me on your guitars, they look absolutely wonderful. And I like the looks of the Big Singles and the metal rings on your Chromasonic very much. Sharp looking guitar.

I don't know the Big Singles, but I do have a set of Fralin's noise cancelling P90s with the Alnico rods in a Firebird of mine, I guess they are basically Jazzmaster pickups at that point. I don't think those will be replaced with Kinmans.

Let me ask you- is there any functional difference between the Big Singles and a traditional Firebird pickup? I don't quite know what I'm looking at here.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by BTL » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:52 am

Honestly, the Kinmans are pretty new to me and I had never checked out the Tele versions prior to today. At some point I may look up the patent to gain a better understanding of what they do differently than a traditional stacked humbucker, but it seems to be a dummy coil along with a little “secret sauce”. I’m certain that’s an oversimplification, but it’s the baseline of my understanding around how the pickup functions.

By contrast, Fralin’s HCP90 and Big Singles are kind of “riffs” on the original Bill Lawrence Firebird patent with some of his own “secret sauce” mixed in. I’ll elaborate a little more later today.
Last edited by BTL on Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by BTL » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:43 pm

The original Firebird pickup was a sidewinder design, and the patent drawing is shown below.

Fralin's version of a sidewinder replaces the metal slugs in 19 & 20 with a mild steel plate that spans both bobbins. I've never seen the insides, but I believe the HCP90 uses high-powered magnets at the outside edges of the horizontal plate to magnetize it and the typical P90 screws as the sensing aperture in the center. In the Big Single, the plate remains, but the slugs are replaced by a bar magnet that sits on top of the plate at 14. Hopefully that all makes sense.

I really love Lindy's designs and his ear for designing pickups that do exactly what I expect them to do. The Primaluxe on my site actually has the prototype Big Single in it, built under a P90 cover with no holes.

Image

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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:12 pm

Black paisley will look classy on black. That’s my vote.

Purple paisley will look mascisy. Maybe not bad either

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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:53 pm

Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:12 pm
Black paisley will look classy on black. That’s my vote.

Purple paisley will look mascisy. Maybe not bad either
I'm starting to sour on it. I'll still do it if the vote goes that way.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Embenny » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:33 pm

I voted for black on black. Upgrade the Telecaster you actually like. Personally, I don't think purple on black works, but if you do, then do that.

For my tastes, the black paisley on either would look amazing. More amazing on the AVRI if I'm being honest, but upgrading a guitar you don't enjoy playing as much is a great way to have a really expensive and tricked out guitar that you still just don't like as much.

Your favourite Telecaster with the black paisley and Kinmans, though? Jeez, that'll be a keeper right there.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by BTL » Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:53 am

Yes, a big +1 on black paisley for either.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by sessylU » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:02 am

You've asked for opinions, and you don't seem to have received this one yet, so I'm duty bound to mouth off: Don't do it. Both guitars look great now, both new guards look terrible.

Obviously you do you. If you like it, that's the most important thing.
a total idiot jackass

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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:13 am

sessylU wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:02 am
You've asked for opinions, and you don't seem to have received this one yet, so I'm duty bound to mouth off: Don't do it. Both guitars look great now, both new guards look terrible.

Obviously you do you. If you like it, that's the most important thing.
I appreciate it, but the Ilitch guards are out, the aluminum guards are in. At this point I have more than a few guitars with noise cancelling pickups and aluminum guards, I like the sound, look and the performance. So it's not quite just a cosmetic decision here.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:19 am

mbene085 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:33 pm
I voted for black on black. Upgrade the Telecaster you actually like. Personally, I don't think purple on black works, but if you do, then do that.

For my tastes, the black paisley on either would look amazing. More amazing on the AVRI if I'm being honest, but upgrading a guitar you don't enjoy playing as much is a great way to have a really expensive and tricked out guitar that you still just don't like as much.

Your favourite Telecaster with the black paisley and Kinmans, though? Jeez, that'll be a keeper right there.
Thanks Mike! This is a nail biter here.

I have no idea why I don't like playing the AVRI as much, but the flip side is that should I bring that one up to spec it'll make me keep it in the rotation while the other one is effectively retired, and I'll spend a lot more time with it. Maybe I'll learn to love it more.

Both are keepers, though- these will be my Telecasters for the rest of my life. Way too modified for it to be worthwhile trading or selling at this point.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by rank » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:22 pm

I voted black on black. You can always reverse it if you don't like it.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by mackerelmint » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:54 pm

Black on sunburst looks good, always.

White on black looks like a cheap, ill-fitting, threadbare rental tuxedo on a pimply-faced teenager, always.

You know what to do.
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Re: Which one gets the upgrades?

Post by mediocreplayer » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:47 pm

It is clear to me that the correct action is hiding behind all of these questions.

Sell the AVRI!

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