seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).

which guitar should i buy?

electric XII
24
80%
gibson les paul
6
20%
 
Total votes: 30

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MKR
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seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by MKR » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:06 pm

I've recently sold a bunch of stuff and i have some funds to buy a nice guitar. I have narrowed it down to 2. they are the same price.

1. fender alternate reality electric xii
Image

2. Gibson tribute series les paul.
Image

pros for the fender xii: it offers me something different that no other guitar of mine can do. it's a rare guitar to have. Looks cool.

pros for les paul. USA made. high quiality instrument based on what i have read. It's a timeless classic. Looks cool.

did i mention both are the same price.

Which one do i go for?

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by HNB » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm

I voted XII. I just can't buy mahogany neck guitars with no scarf or volute. I have had two guitars with that type of neck break. I only do harder wood necks or ones without the extreme headstock angle personally. :) (Plus Les Pauls tend to be heavy...) (Plus plus XII's are fucking cool.)
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by Gordon » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 pm

XII

As you said, it's different. And uncommon... Get it while you can, it'll always be possible to get a LP in the future, with very similar specs. And if you don't bond with the XII, you'll find a buyer at a better price than the LP.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:04 pm

HNB wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm
(Plus Les Pauls tend to be heavy...)
Actually, the Les Paul "Tribute" (whatever the fuck that means) tells us "Gibson's Les Paul Tribute brings you all the vibe and feel of a traditional Les Paul, in a ultra-modern-weight-relieved mahogany body."

Whatever the fuck that means.

Les Paul Studio guitars are a dime a dozen. The satin finish on this one will wear quickly. It's a cut rate guitar that is probably unexceptional in every way.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by JVG » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:05 pm

Either. They are basically the same.

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by MKR » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:21 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:04 pm

Whatever the fuck that means.

Les Paul Studio guitars are a dime a dozen. The satin finish on this one will wear quickly. It's a cut rate guitar that is probably unexceptional in every way.
ouch! and this is coming form a gibson guy...

i was expecting a different take from you. By all accounts these recent tribute LPs are quite nice. I have yet to come across a bad review on them.

Also i will say this: I do not see myself being able to afford a "standard" series gibson. What do they run... $2000+? That's just out of my league. I have always been an epiphone guy... so getting an entry level gibson would seem like a pretty big step up. The only one i had before was a melody maker with 2 p90s and i gotta say it was nice. It just felt like it cut too many corners (super thin body, no pickguard, thin finish, etc). This tribute series looks a lot better. full thickness (i think), nice pickups, nice neck inlays, the finish looks good on youtube clips. I'll just say it got my attention.

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:31 pm

I mean, I'm sure it's fine.

I just have to wonder why you would buy that new instead of a Les Paul Studio used for like $750-900 with the full gloss finish?

The "Tribute" is just a Studio that has a matte or satin finish on it. Maybe the pickups are different, but probably not better, necessarily.

My point is that considering how many used Studios are out there, no reason not to pick up a cheap but good version of those, you'll pay less and get more.
Last edited by Larry Mal on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by MKR » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:34 pm

HNB wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm
I voted XII. I just can't buy mahogany neck guitars with no scarf or volute. I have had two guitars with that type of neck break.
interesting. i never thought about that angle. Can i ask how they broke?

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:40 pm

MKR wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:34 pm
HNB wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm
I voted XII. I just can't buy mahogany neck guitars with no scarf or volute. I have had two guitars with that type of neck break.
interesting. i never thought about that angle. Can i ask how they broke?
Well, I can't quite answer what HNB was addressing, but a Gibson Les Paul basically can't handle much of a fall.

Incidentally, the scarf joint would make a big difference, I don't know that the volute really did. Anyway, I cracked the finish and a little bit of the wood by my Les Paul Studio falling onto it's face from a guitar stand onto carpet. It was always stable and repaired with no real issue, but had it not been carpeted it would have broken right off.

That's all Gibsons, though... the headstocks are very fragile. I've owned like fifty, though, and that's been the only issue over all these years. You just be careful.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by HNB » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:12 pm

MKR wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:34 pm
HNB wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm
I voted XII. I just can't buy mahogany neck guitars with no scarf or volute. I have had two guitars with that type of neck break.
interesting. i never thought about that angle. Can i ask how they broke?
Both broke in shipping. One had a crack on both sides with wood chunks that broke away, the other got cracks on each side at the nut.

I do have a Les Paul, but it is a Deluxe with a three piece maple neck and volute. I don't want to always worry about the headstock so I tend to just avoid mahogany necks that have angled headstocks. I know they don't all break, but I do know too many that do for my piece of mind.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by HNB » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:16 pm

Volutes help quite a bit at the nut where the truss rod is due to how little wood is there at a point under tension. It adds some wood to thicken the area up. They can still break of course, but less easily. A volute and scarf joint would be awesomeness.

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by del » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:03 am

Ummm...
These two guitars aren't an "apple or orange" sort of comparison. 12-string guitars are special in many many ways and they definitely don't bring a smile to every owners face.

If you know you like to play 12-string guitars (via experience, not just aspiration) I think that's the choice here. This offset XII is a cool machine!

If you're not familiar with owning/playing-for-more-than-a-minute a 12-string guitar, I'm hesitant to recommend that option and would point you towards the LP (though I'd also encourage you to reflect on Larry's thoughts about buying that particular model).
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:10 am

Yeah above 13 degrees I'm not having it unless it's a 2+ piece neck. Below that, especially if they have a volute, 1-piece is fine (I think it was Larry who was unclear about what they're supposed to do -- they add back wood to a spot that's really fragile at the neck-headstock transition if you have a tiltback headstock and a truss rod access route up there).

I say 13 degrees, but it's not science or anything -- I've just seen a lot of one-piece stuff above that just explode on contact with the floor. PRS does 10ish normally, Gibson does 17, most of the aftermarket Fender neck places do 10ish-15ish on tiltbacks.

To the OP, I'm not a huge 12-string person, but I also have an old 4-knob ESP Eclipse (aka literally just a skinny LP), and it's by far the best LP I've ever played (there's one on Reverb right now that's the same color as mine for $1350 IIRC). If it's gotta be one of the two, I'd personally go for the LP just because I have no use for a XII, but the XII is definitely the more interesting and unique guitar.

Like Del said above, it's not "pick which guitar", it's "6 or 12". It's really up to you to figure out which one is gonna get you tones you'll actually use.

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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:17 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:10 am
Yeah above 13 degrees I'm not having it unless it's a 2+ piece neck. Below that, especially if they have a volute, 1-piece is fine (I think it was Larry who was unclear about what they're supposed to do -- they add back wood to a spot that's really fragile at the neck-headstock transition if you have a tiltback headstock and a truss rod access route up there).
I'm not unclear on what they are supposed to do, I just have to question the effectiveness of the volutes.

I've owned a few models with the volutes, still have two of them, a Sonex and a Marauder.

But the reason I say I have to question how effective they are is because when I was looking at Norlin era Deluxes, I was surprised at how many of them still had headstock breaks.

My takeaway from that is to consider the guitars with a volute to still be as fragile as any other Gibson.

Anyway, there is no reason to take the headstock of a Gibson into account when buying them, they're one of the biggest names in guitars for the last hundred years so just take reasonable care and you'll have a great guitar.

I just don't really like this "Tribute" model all that much and don't see why one would pay new price for it when one could get a better grade of guitar from Gibson used.
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Re: seeking advise: which guitar do i buy?

Post by MKR » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:29 am

del wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:03 am
Ummm...
These two guitars aren't an "apple or orange" sort of comparison. 12-string guitars are special in many many ways and they definitely don't bring a smile to every owners face.

If you know you like to play 12-string guitars (via experience, not just aspiration) I think that's the choice here. This offset XII is a cool machine!

If you're not familiar with owning/playing-for-more-than-a-minute a 12-string guitar, I'm hesitant to recommend that option and would point you towards the LP (though I'd also encourage you to reflect on Larry's thoughts about buying that particular model).
that's a good point, but in the last year i have become experienced with 12 strings. I picked up a cheap epiphone 12 string acoustic over the winter and i have been having a blast with it. It's so true that I had to adjust and play it with a totally different approach than i play a normal 6string, but i have made the transition.

A couple years ago i had a danelectro 12 string and at the time i wasn't able to adapt and enjoy playing it. it felt weird and akward and i wasn't suited for it then. This time around i have 'figured out' 12 strings so to speak. Hence my wanting to pick up a nice electric version.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think i am leaning towards the fender.

and Larry, a counter point to your suggestion of getting a second hand studio LP, the market for this is so terrible here in toronto. second hand guitar market is bonkers and at the moment these tribute models are $1200 brand new (comes with a sweet leather case too) - this month the big guitar chain has knocked a $200 off the price.

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