The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Maggieo » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:47 am

Keith Williams of Five Watt World, Rhett Schull and Trogly both have addressed the "Custom Shop" ES-339's horrid Q/C issues. You're much better buying a "stock" Memphis version, as the sample variation isn't as wildly inconsistent, an inconsistency that lies on the poor construction side.

Even with the stock Memphis guitars, Keith points out that the main variable with them is weight, and the lighter ones are the best sounding and playing.

Gibson has discontinued the 339, so there's that, too.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:14 am
I think you dodged a bullet, really... they really are totally lame guitars, my experience turned me off on the model completely but frankly it's just a boring, stupid and uninspiring concept anyway.

I usually say this stuff about Fender here but let's give Gibson some attention also:

We had been mocking the concept of the solid-bodied ES guitars on our email, and deservedly so.

And the ES-339 is pretty much Gibson doing what Fender often does, being unable to actually design a fresh and exciting new guitar, instead they just slapped shit from other models together and hoped for the best. "Let's make the ES-335 be a Les Paul or something... people like those guitars."

Like forcing the ES-335 and Les Paul to breed or something, and it still wasn't a useful hybrid, so they revisited the concept again and came up with this thing.

Somehow I find that less awful than the ES-339 but I haven't had to actually play one so maybe I'm just innocent and naive to how lame that thing is, also.

So I would say something like sorry that didn't work out for you but I think it actually did work out for you- sorry you wasted your time, though. Regardless your strategy of trading guitars upward would have been irrevocably thrown off course trading the well loved classic ES-335 (that you should be trading upwards for a Country Gentleman or White Falcon or something) for the wretched lab grown embarrassment that is the ES-339.
Well, a couple of thoughts. The first is that Canada has much worse temperature and humidity swings than many places in the US, so these issues are probably exacerbated here. Still, the guy who owned it didn't play out and had a whole-home humidifier and some nice guitars that weren't visibly disintegrating, so I really can't explain it. I've bought and sold guitars here in Canada for a couple of decades now so I've seen the gamut of what our climate can do to neglected instruments and this takes the cake. Something was definitely wrong with it, which sucks, because unlike yours, it was a surprisingly lovely playing experience with your eyes closed.

But I still don't hate the idea of the 339. It was a lot lighter and more comfortable for a small guy like me to hold, and didn't sound at all like a solidbody guitar. They pop up for as low as $2200 CAD sometimes, which is roughly half the going rate of a nice 335. If it was a more recent Nashville-made one that sounded as good acoustically as the one I just played and was built to the same standard? I'd honestly switch over to it gladly.

Maybe this gets back on topic for once in this thread, but the 335 doesn't hold any mystique to me, and other than seeing B.B. King when I was 13 years old (and Buddy Guy at the same show - boy did my parents knock that birthday gift out of the park), I've never looked at someone playing an ES guitar and wished I had one. My trade for it was made with extreme skepticism, and I only sort of begrudgingly changed my opinion after I played it.

But, it's heavy, it's big, and it's expensive, so if a theoretical 339 could give me a similarly-inspiring acoustic tone and feel for $2k CAD less and with lower weight for standing and a smaller body for sitting with? I'm down for that. That would address most of my current complaints about it. It's big, heavy, and expensive, but it's a great enough guitar that I forgive it.

Of course, I don't know that I'll ever come across a 339 that ticks those boxes. My only experience so far has been with a 339 that was a galaxy apart from the 335 in quality. But I'm open to the possibility. I've been pleasantly surprised by two amazing Gibsons so far - this 335, and Maggie's SG, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. There's a certain amount of inertia to overcome because this 335 is so nice. It wouldn't be worth buying a brand new 339, even if it was amazing, because I wouldn't stand to make enough money back selling the 335 to go to all that trouble. It wouldn't be worth buying a poorly-made 339 or one that is less inspiring to play, because then I'm getting an objectively worse guitar just to get some money back.

But if I meet my 335's equal in a 339 form factor and weight at a good price? I'll rather happily do so.

All this might be coloured by being Canadian though - 335s are more expensive here. We have an absolutely tiny used market compared to the US, and our music stores don't ever discount US-made guitars. So you either pay full retail (which is generally priced higher than the currency-converted US retail price) with 13% tax on top, or you buy the occasional and expensive used one that pops up, or you buy a used one from the US and pay an extra 16-20% in shipping and duties, with the prospect of losing hundreds of dollars on shipping if you need to return it, on top of a 3-6 month wait to get your 13% import tax refunded by snail mail.

If I lived in the land of a possible $2000 USD used 335, that price differential wouldn't exist and I wouldn't bother considering the 339. It looks like the cheapest standard 339 on Reverb is currently listed at $1900 USD, while I could sell my 335 in Canada and literally buy both a 339 and American Professional Jazzmaster at current Canadian prices without waiting for a hot deal or anything. That's pretty wild, and the main reason I'll continue to casually monitor my local market for 339s I can test out in person.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:08 am

Maggieo wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:47 am
Keith Williams of Five Watt World, Rhett Schull and Trogly both have addressed the "Custom Shop" ES-339's horrid Q/C issues. You're much better buying a "stock" Memphis version, as the sample variation isn't as wildly inconsistent, an inconsistency that lies on the poor construction side.

Even with the stock Memphis guitars, Keith points out that the main variable with them is weight, and the lighter ones are the best sounding and playing.

Gibson has discontinued the 339, so there's that, too.
Interesting - I'll check out those videos and keep that all in mind! This was a very light 339, so that fits with what you're describing. It felt a good 2lbs lighter than my 335. If it hadn't had the QC issues, I'd have happily traded for it given the Canadian price differential. Very light, very resonant, nearly as acoustically loud and fun to play as my 335.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:22 am

Maggieo wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:47 am
Keith Williams of Five Watt World, Rhett Schull and Trogly both have addressed the "Custom Shop" ES-339's horrid Q/C issues. You're much better buying a "stock" Memphis version, as the sample variation isn't as wildly inconsistent, an inconsistency that lies on the poor construction side.

Even with the stock Memphis guitars, Keith points out that the main variable with them is weight, and the lighter ones are the best sounding and playing.

Gibson has discontinued the 339, so there's that, too.
Maggie, can you link those? I looked at a Five Watt one and a Trogly video and didn't see it.

I'd be interested in hearing more- like I say, I found that ES-339 to be so putrid that it turned me off on Gibson itself for a few years.

Wretched instrument.

Are we sure that they put the miserable ES-339 out of its misery?

Still on the website, which I wish I hadn't even looked at.

Frankly it depresses me to see the inspiring ES line be reduced to such a paltry selection of the ES-335 only and endless variants, with the exception of some unobtanium collector's bullshit like the Chuck Berry $10,000 ES-350.

I know Gibson has been chastised once again about "getting back to the basics" and I guess that means endless variants of the same guitar except you can pay as much as you want for some cosmetics. How inspiring, thanks, Levi's asshole.

Although I think that Slim Harpo ES-330 is pretty sharp.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Flurko » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 am

This landing page is one of the saddest things I've seen today. "Do you like your red guitars red or red?"

Image

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:33 am

Flurko wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 am


This landing page is one of the saddest things I've seen today. "Do you like your red guitars red or red?"
Right? This whole "back to the basics" approach that the Levi's guy feels he needs to do is about as inspiring as it sounds.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by sal paradise » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:50 am

At least you’ll be vaping your Marlboro
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Maggieo » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:51 am

If you click on the 339s, they're all out of stock, same for Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc...
Flurko wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 am
This landing page is one of the saddest things I've seen today. "Do you like your red guitars red or red?"

Image
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:01 am

Maggieo wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:51 am
If you click on the 339s, they're all out of stock, same for Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc...
Probably ran out of red paint.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:45 am

Ironically, I'd probably like my 335 more if it was red.

That's a depressing landing page though. It reminds me of Larry's quote along the lines of, "Gibson - there's a good guitar underneath there, somewhere."

Having now owned a couple of amazing Gibsons and a couple of not-amazing ones, I really do agree with the idea that Gibson as a company has worked against itself at nearly every available opportunity, but none of the uninspiring colour choices or random discontinuation of nice models or QC issues or PR disasters change the fact that some of their guitars are just plain damn nice instruments.

So, I don't find myself having any brand affinity toward them, but I now appreciate that a good Gibson can be an inspiring guitar to play, so much so that it can overcome my aversion or indifference to their looks. Like my SG, which is reddish mahogany and looks much like every boring reddish mahogany SG I've ever seen, which is like 80% of them. It's just so light, so resonant, so easy to play, and sounds so good that I haven't even been shopping for noiseless P90s which would normally be my immediate move for any single coil guitar I intend to keep.

If I look up SGs on their web site, the first page that loads has five red mahogany models and one blue. I'd never have been inspired by those images to go to a store and try out some new red SGs, or order one. But since this one landed in my lap via trade, I just played it and despite being wholly underwhelmed by its looks, I've been having the time of my life with it. Amazing neck, great action, positively weightless, no neck dive on a strap, new and different tones I haven't gotten before. What more could I ask of it? Nothing. It's great.

What could I ask of Gibson as a company? Plenty. Give me a choice of non-Custom Shop/artist signature models in a finish other than red, brown, or black.

There's precisely one SG at or below "SG Standard" pricing in a colour, the Special in gorgeous faded Pelham Blue:

Image

But, at least in Canada, it's the exact same price as an SG Standard in red or black. Why? No trapezoid inlays, wraparound instead of TOM/ST. Other than forced scarcity of coloured paint, is there a reason they can't just offer colours on an SG Standard, or offer this simplified SG at a bit of a discount since it appears to have fewer parts and less labour involved in making it? If I had a choice, I'd take this faded/greened Pelham Blue on any Gibson model any day of the week over their usual sea of brown, red, sunburst and black.

It's such a nice colour. I'd love to see Gibson treat colour as something other than a rare and pricey feature! Fender finally got the memo with Offsets and now we have them coming in all sorts of shades other than sunburst, black, white, and red.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Maggieo » Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:19 pm

I've been having the time of my life with it. Amazing neck, great action, positively weightless, no neck dive on a strap, new and different tones I haven't gotten before. What more could I ask of it? Nothing. It's great.
This makes me incredibly happy. Same goes for my end, "The Gunslinger."
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:08 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:19 pm
I've been having the time of my life with it. Amazing neck, great action, positively weightless, no neck dive on a strap, new and different tones I haven't gotten before. What more could I ask of it? Nothing. It's great.
This makes me incredibly happy. Same goes for my end, "The Gunslinger."
That's awesome. A true win-win for two people with redundant guitars!

Sorry for disparaging its finish :D

I just love strong colours and have no idea why Gibson gatekeeps the colour wheel. Every time I see a nice colour on one, I wonder why I don't see that kind of thing more often.

But the SG is a keeper, even if I could never pick it out from a lineup of random SGs lying face down. If I had to pick between the SG and 335, the SG would stay. Maybe that's because I've had more time to get to know it, but it's more practical too. I spent a few hours transplanting elderberry bushes the other day, and I was pretty worn out. I played the 335 standing for 15 minutes that night and my back needed a break. Pulled out the SG and it practically levitated into my hands. Didn't spend a moment thinking about the weight of the guitar after that.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:06 pm

This is the best thread. I can't imagine anything that would make this thread any better.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Flurko » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:57 pm


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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:12 pm

I liked that music.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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