The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

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Larry Mal
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:35 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm
Gavanti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:43 pm
I believe it's an Anchor Stud Bigsby model, meant to look like some of the early ones where they plugged the holes left from a Bigsby conversion. I really like black archtops for some reason. I don't mind the sunburst, but the pelham blue ones of this model look pretty stunning. What's a little odd though is the Grovers, which are not standard, but the seller said were factory. I wondered if either he was able to order them custom either because this is something you can just do(is it?) or because he's a pro. There was a very similar model the same year with a stopbar and Grovers. Maybe somewhere in the bankruptcy some parts got mixed together?
Whoah, I stand corrected. I should have known better than to presume my Fender and Gretsch knowledge. Pull be extrapolated into Gibson land. Thanks for the info!

Also, mine also has Grovers. Is that not the standard tuner on these? The last owner put on locking Grovers but included what he said were original tuners, which are non-locking Grovers, and there are no covered-up extras screw holes or anything so I believe him.
Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:09 pm
Let's see that burst, Mike!

And I know you love your sunbursts. I'm quite the opposite. I find 2- and 3-tone sunburst terribly boring for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about the traditional teardrop shape seems especially weird. It's like the binding is defining this classic ES shape and the sunburst is like "I wanted to be a mandolin."

Nah, I don't really like sunburst all that much! I have actually picked sunburst only one time, on my Firebird, and I regretted it quickly (but mildly) and wished I had gotten the black or white. Fact is, I'm just cheap, and if I want a model of guitar and the lowest cost version is in a color I don't really love, I'll still buy it. I don't care a lot about what color they are. Sometimes more than others.

I think that burst is very nice on yours, though... but it is very old school. Classic look, well done, very 60's in that kind of louche way that I enjoy.

I can't answer to the Bilt or Starcasters, but I did have a Rickenbacker 330 that I miss, and it was pretty similarly acoustic and fun. And of course the ES-330 is also.

Which brings me to the ES-339. I had one in my possession for a month or so, from my man who I bought the brown (now there's a color I don't like) Stratocaster. Same deal, he needed to put some money together, and it would have been a good deal for me, easy payments, he probably ended up dumping it at a huge loss which he tends to do.

I hated it. I remember flipping it over and seeing "Custom Shop" on the back there, which at the time I believed it to be, it was a new model. Turns out that Gibson was just slapping "Custom Shop" on non-custom ES instruments (my ES-330 has it) for no clear reason, regardless I was marveling at how such a piece of shit could be a custom instrument.

I was pretty anti-Gibson in those days, and unskilled at setting guitars up, I might get along with it more now. But at the time I found it to be a heavy, uninspiring, overwrought piece of junk that I didn't want at any price. I hadn't learned how to reconcile with PAF pickups, regardless I hated the way it sounded, played, and felt. I do not remember it having a pleasing acoustic sound to it. I don't remember it having anything good about it.

I hope your experience is different and it very well might be.

Frankly it set me back from Gibson for a few more years. I didn't get the Gibson thing until I got my Firebird, and that ES-339 and my previous uninspiring Les Paul Studio were so lame I might have never reconciled with Gibson if they didn't make the Firebird, which I always loved the looks of and just had to have. Turns out they are wonderful, but I bought that based on my eyes falling in love. I had never played one.

And like you, when I played my ES-335 for the first time, which was immediately before the 2020 election, I thought that it played in a way that I hadn't quite found before. I think that Gibsons as a rule play great, somehow the ES-335 was a grade higher. It makes me feel like some chording is a little more possible- I also got that from the ES-330.

And I also wondered why it had taken me so long to get there... I mean, the guitar is legendary, it's one of the very few Gibsons that they have never quit making for a reason (the other is the SG). Sometimes you just gotta go along with what everybody else says, you know?
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Gavanti » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:04 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm

Are Starcasters or Bilt Volares as acoustically responsive as this? Am I just now realizing as a lifelong acoustic guitarist that I should have been checking out hollow and semihollow electrics? Literally the first time I owned anything hollower than a Thinline Fender was this past year, when I traded for Steve's (surfysonic) beautiful Gretsch. It was a great guitar but was like three times as bulky as this 335 and was truly cumbersome for me to play while standing, so it ended up back with him in a second trade not long after.
It might be worth looking at Zaftigs. I’ve had a few, and they’ve all been pretty resonant. They sit sort of midway between the 335 and a Jazzmaster ergonomically. Much easier to find used than a Volare too. I haven’t had a set of PAF style humbuckers in one, though, so I don’t know if it would get that great woody tone in the neck that some 335s have.

My local shop has a gorgeously worn ‘63 335 with a Bigsby added. It was so light and sounded really alive when I played it. I didn’t even bother to ask the price. I’d have to give up too much, and it would be hard to imagine taking it anywhere

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:15 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:35 pm
And I also wondered why it had taken me so long to get there... I mean, the guitar is legendary, it's one of the very few Gibsons that they have never quit making for a reason (the other is the SG). Sometimes you just gotta go along with what everybody else says, you know?
Very funny that the Firebird's looks roped us both in and that we had similar trajectories. In my case, the Firebird was the gateway guitar and the SG came next. I'd never have taken the leap with cash, but trades presented the opportunity to try those both, and then again now with the 335, and each time I've been pleasantly surprised. I'd definitely be open to another Firebird since it was a casualty of this trade, but right now the SG and 335 are really a lovely duo. The SG is small, light, solid bodied, and has P90s. The 335 is bigger, bulkier, semihollow and has PAFs. There's basically no overlap between them.

If I do keep the 335, I might look into swapping pickups though. I don't want to lose the magic of the middle position, but I can't help but feel that some lightly and asymmetrically wound PAFs like low wind Imperials or El Rayos might make the individual neck and bridge tones more appealing. It seems that the 57 Classics are sort of known for being on the more midrangey side of the vintage PAF spectrum. Each pickup has a tone control, so I'd have to imagine that you could get a similar middle position tone to the current one out of some clearer PAFs by just rolling off a bit of treble here or there, but gain some extra utility.

How much worse are the set neck Firebird Studios than the neck-through real deals? There's a Studio nearby at a crazy price. It's got P90s but Firebirds fit in P90 adapter rings easily enough. They're asking under half of what a used Firebird costs in these parts.

And that's funny about the sunbursts. I remember your photo from the sunburst thread and assumed it was a genuine preference.

Interesting that the 339 made such a poor impression. I've never seen one in the wild here, so I doubt I'll get to give one a go and definitely wouldn't be interested in shelling out that kind of money on a total gamble.
Gavanti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:04 pm
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm

Are Starcasters or Bilt Volares as acoustically responsive as this? Am I just now realizing as a lifelong acoustic guitarist that I should have been checking out hollow and semihollow electrics? Literally the first time I owned anything hollower than a Thinline Fender was this past year, when I traded for Steve's (surfysonic) beautiful Gretsch. It was a great guitar but was like three times as bulky as this 335 and was truly cumbersome for me to play while standing, so it ended up back with him in a second trade not long after.
It might be worth looking at Zaftigs. I’ve had a few, and they’ve all been pretty resonant. They sit sort of midway between the 335 and a Jazzmaster ergonomically. Much easier to find used than a Volare too. I haven’t had a set of PAF style humbuckers in one, though, so I don’t know if it would get that great woody tone in the neck that some 335s have.

My local shop has a gorgeously worn ‘63 335 with a Bigsby added. It was so light and sounded really alive when I played it. I didn’t even bother to ask the price. I’d have to give up too much, and it would be hard to imagine taking it anywhere
Oh boy, I can't imagine the price on that '63, either.

Thanks for your input on the Bilts. I've only just recently played my first one, the Relevator which I also got in a trade (it's the only way I take gambles on expensive guitars, really) and it's just an incredible player. I'd be very curious to see what a semi-hollow one is like, but they really just don't exist up here in Canada.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:37 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:15 pm


If I do keep the 335, I might look into swapping pickups though. I don't want to lose the magic of the middle position, but I can't help but feel that some lightly and asymmetrically wound PAFs like low wind Imperials or El Rayos might make the individual neck and bridge tones more appealing. It seems that the 57 Classics are sort of known for being on the more midrangey side of the vintage PAF spectrum. Each pickup has a tone control, so I'd have to imagine that you could get a similar middle position tone to the current one out of some clearer PAFs by just rolling off a bit of treble here or there, but gain some extra utility.

How much worse are the set neck Firebird Studios than the neck-through real deals? There's a Studio nearby at a crazy price. It's got P90s but Firebirds fit in P90 adapter rings easily enough. They're asking under half of what a used Firebird costs in these parts.

And that's funny about the sunbursts. I remember your photo from the sunburst thread and assumed it was a genuine preference.

I thought I was being ironic with my post... but no, I just discovered one day that thrift had led me to have a tremendous sunburst collection. At my funeral people will be like, "Larry sure loved sunburst guitars, because he was an old man and old guys like that kind of shit," and I'll be screaming in hell.

I don't know much about the '57 Classics. I thought they were good... but you know, I had a set of Burstbucker Pros, which I picked instead of the '57 Classics, and I never loved those any.

Honestly, I've been looking for an excuse to still El Rayos in something for years, and I had thought that maybe if I ever got an ES-335 it would be that guitar. But I really like the Memphis Historic Spec pickups, and while the El Rayos would be different, I don't know if I would like them more. And I can't bring myself to believe that the low wind Imperials would be any better than the MHS.

I could easily believe they would be better than the '57 Classics, though.

But Gibson isn't fucking around with the Classics, though:

They are made to the exact same specs as the original PAFs, including Alnico II magnets, nickel-plated pole pieces, nickel slugs, maple spacers, and vintage-style, two-conductor braided wiring.

They aren't wound hot, either. Maybe spend a little more time with them.

When you say the Firebird Studio, I guess you mean this thing?

http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Elect ... -2018.aspx

There is nothing about it that I like. It's just a plank of wood, there's nothing of the majesty of the Firebird in there. I'm sure it's a fine guitar.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:09 pm

To answer your other question, Mike, Grovers were standard on your guitar, I'm virtually certain.

I like Grovers.

Oh, and there is sunburst that I am wild about:

Image
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm

Makes sense. Didn't think much about it but I recall a lot of Gibsons also used Klusons.

About the '57s, the interesting thing is that they seem to be relatively thick despite being "low wind." I've read it's because they have a more symmetrical wind.

For example, those Burstbuckers you mentioned are wound more asymmetrically, and I found some YouTube shootouts of the 57 and BB in 335s specifically, and the 57s have less low and high end and more midrange.

But you're right. I'll probably find more redeeming qualities in the 57s with time. I haven't even tweaked pickup or polepiece height yet, so maybe there's a balance yet to be found that I'll like even more.

And yeah...that's Firebird Studio. You're right that it's not much of a Firebird.

In my time exploring 335s and PAFs, I've come across a fair bit of chatter about those MHS pickups, and it seems tbey are both highly regarded by low output PAF fans and absurdly expensive. I'd definitely leave those in there if that's what you have. Very unlikely to be anything but a lateral move, it seems, but what do I know about these things? I'm a total noob who still isn't sure that he likes PAFs much at all.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:34 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm
Makes sense. Didn't think much about it but I recall a lot of Gibsons also used Klusons.

About the '57s, the interesting thing is that they seem to be relatively thick despite being "low wind." I've read it's because they have a more symmetrical wind.

For example, those Burstbuckers you mentioned are wound more asymmetrically, and I found some YouTube shootouts of the 57 and BB in 335s specifically, and the 57s have less low and high end and more midrange.

But you're right. I'll probably find more redeeming qualities in the 57s with time. I haven't even tweaked pickup or polepiece height yet, so maybe there's a balance yet to be found that I'll like even more.
Maybe... I don't know. I read the same stuff, decided that the Burstbuckers (I got the lowest wind ones) would really do it for me. They didn't.

I'll just say that if you think that the '57 Classics might be just another thick fucking hum bucker, no one over here will think you are crazy. You may dial the sound in, you may not.
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm

In my time exploring 335s and PAFs, I've come across a fair bit of chatter about those MHS pickups, and it seems tbey are both highly regarded by low output PAF fans and absurdly expensive. I'd definitely leave those in there if that's what you have. Very unlikely to be anything but a lateral move, it seems, but what do I know about these things? I'm a total noob who still isn't sure that he likes PAFs much at all.
Yeah, the MHS stuff is very well regarded. Also, I'm no expert at all: I have owned two Les Paul Studios, both with the 498/500 pickups in there. I'm now charitable towards them, but back in the day I couldn't see anything good about them at all. I guess I have a Sonex with Dirty Fingers, totally different, and I had an M2 that I put the Burstbuckers in and sold immediately.

So my world of thinking is very much informed by single coils still, and I am kind of learning the PAF and with the MHS, I found something that really works.

Still: some years ago I went to Killer Vintage, an absolutely wonderful store in St. Louis, and one of the employees there (who I didn't know) thrust his Les Paul at me, he had just loaded it up with El Rayos.

It wasn't for sale, and I don't even know that they sold those pickups- he was just evangelizing.

Regardless, I spent about half an hour playing this guy's guitar, and my mind was absolutely blown... it was the first time I realized that the PAF pickup could be more than what I knew it to be.

I was just going, man, what the fuck and the guitar store guy was just nodding along. I had no idea.

Gibson and no one else makes anything like that pickup that I'm aware of, and if you like how it sounds in videos, it's more stunning in person. I'm tempted to say bullshit like how it's like a single coil in a PAF form factor with the advantages of a PAF, but it's more than just that. Granted, I spent only half an hour, but it didn't seem like anything else I had played. I walked out immediately scheming to get at those in some way.

Something to consider- you aren't on the wrong track with that.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Maggieo » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:51 am

I think Burstbuckers work best in Les Pauls. I've got the BB1 and BB2 in my '59 Epiphone Outfit, and they're damn close to the 70s DiMarzio's in my Hamer Special.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by DeathJag » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:16 am

seenoevil II wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:34 am
In this thread I hope to explore the psychology at work when we lust for certain pieces of gear.
I truly don’t care about Gibson guitars. But this question is a fantastic one that has been buried by Gibson discussion!

I am convinced that many people on guitar forums, certainly myself, are trying to fill a void with gear, and then enjoy the “satisfaction” of sharing photos of it. This may sound weirdly condemning but I truly don’t mean it as a negative thing. It’s actually an awesome thing, because many of us don’t really have scenes that allow us to commiserate with like-minded people. So the question really is what exactly are we trying to accomplish? Are we just wasting time while we avoid dealing with our actual life stuff, or continuing toward our life goals with the online help of others?

The fact that there are many playable guitars out there, but this one has become a life quest, indicates that the music from the guitar is secondary. I realize this is a somewhat inflammatory opinion, but I really don’t mean it as a dis! Please don’t take this the wrong way, I am not trying to fight. I have the collector bug bad and I am trying to get rid of it, so speaking in these terms really helps me. I am speaking about myself. I have so many comics and records that have not made me happy. How do we “just play and not worry about collecting?” I don’t know!

So let’s look at other aspects of life. I have always wanted a classic car (a 40s Hudson Hornet!), but I know I will never own one. I am okay with that, because I have a perfectly functional car. It’s not beautiful and commands literally zero respect, but I ultimately see it as simply a tool for my life, not a defining aspect of it. So if guitars are the vehicles that bring us music, why not accept mid-priced vehicles? Especially if the sound is able to be duplicated.

But of course it’s not as simple as that, because playing a guitar and expressing oneself musically is from a far more intimate and creative endeavor than driving around. The difference between a Rolls Royce and a Toyota just aren’t enough to give a normal (not rich) person car-GAS. But necks, contours, bridges, pickups, finishes, etc, are far more important because they are part of an instrument we use to express ourselves creatively.

I played a Strat for 25 years before I realized that jags and JMs are what most surf music was played on. I became fascinated with Jaguars, and eventually sprung for a 2005 AVRI jag in 2018. It felt like I had been living in the dark my entire life. Suddenly the instrument was comfortable and sounded incredible. I don’t think I have picked up a Strat since. I don’t even care about getting a vintage jag, I am over the moon with the one I have. When I see threads like that fellow with his amazing Sherwood green and the rest of his collection, I just think something like wow that must be awesome. But no part of me has any desire to spend the money on one, and if I really wanted to I could afford it. At no point did I ever consider getting a cheaper model than the AVRI. Which brings up the great point that $2000 or $3000 is not that much for something that helps achieve life goals.

Amps? Well there is an area that I will most likely never stop GASing for. But I realize it is all just a tool set for creative expression, and that stops me from “foolishly” spending any more money on incredible vintage amps. But MAN I really need a 6g6B bassman! And a brown Bandy, and Tremolux. But I have enough amps, including some vintage ones, so why the hell should I need those?

In conclusion, I purport that the psychology you asked about has to do with ones life goals. If not owning something is preventing you from reaching your actual life goals (not short term), then you should suck it up and buy it. If it’s just marketing, then it’s time to do some deep internal diving and cure that bug.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Maggieo » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:46 am

Collecting guitars is one hobby of mine. Playing them is another. Photographing them is another.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:28 am

Maggieo wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:46 am
Collecting guitars is one hobby of mine. Playing them is another. Photographing them is another.
This.

I'm not staring at or talking about guitars with time I'd otherwise be using to play them. It's not a zero-sum game.

I hunt. I research. I flip. I mod. I design. These are all hobbies distinct from playing or writing music on the guitars themselves.

I also grow fruit. I spend a lot of time and energy researching what varieties I can get my hands on, and figuring out whether they fit my property and climate and how best to prune and take care of them.

I also enjoy eating fresh fruit, and I enjoy canning and cooking and baking with fruit. And I enjoy being outside, covered in dirt, digging holes, pruning branches, inspecting and identifying the avian and arthropod visitors I'm attracting, and picking the literal fruits of my labour.

But those are all totally separate things. I could enjoy baking without enjoying eating them fresh. I could enjoy eating them fresh without enjoying growing them. I could enjoy growing them without any desire to bake.

So, if someone GASes for a guitar because it brings them joy to look at or touch or play without negative consequences, that's the good kind of GAS. If they're hemorrhaging money they needed to clothe their children because of compulsive shopping, that's the bad kind. And, of course, there are shades of grey in between.

Any hobby is only as healthy or unhealthy as your approach to it and state of mind.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:15 pm

I mean, I don't know if playing guitar is me "avoiding dealing with life stuff", I would guess I deal with life stuff pretty solidly. I raise two kids, I have a lot of hobbies (I grow corn!), I just completed a degree and will be looking to more education down the road, I read constantly, I write music and stories, I periodically find time to help friends with music, I work on my house, I go to the pool, I try to stay fit, and I've even become part of the local pickle ball community.

That last one I didn't see coming! But man, it's been a lot of fun playing pickle ball with the neighbors.

I have always been devoted to music, not always to guitar, but it's there for me when I want it. I try to make part of each day involve music. When I was younger, I desperately needed something to focus on and music was it. I had the idea that it would come to be my income some day, turns out it didn't and now I have some degree of financial comfort at the moment, so I don't need it to be and honestly I wouldn't want to do the things required to have a career playing music (traveling).

I would like to do more with the music I write, though. That eludes me.

And anyway I don't just play electric guitar or anything, I play a variety of instruments with varying level of skill. You can put me at a piano and I can lose hours playing that. If I could somehow never play electric guitar again I'd be fine if I could play other instruments... I surprisingly don't give a shit about electric guitar. I would miss acoustic guitar.

Regarding the psychology of wanting new guitars, I collect them to a degree, although the definitions of the collection aren't clear. I have always been a collector of things, and this guitar collection doesn't quite make sense to me since it's so ill defined and there's no real historic qualities to most of it. Maybe one day that will be- I had a little collection of Norlin Gibsons, for instance, and I would kind of like to get back to that.

Maybe it's a little weird, but I figure that my time is spent with family, with work, always with education and learning, not as often as it should be physical fitness, and then there is time to be creative. Guitar fits in to that, although frankly I spend a little more time doing dress-up-dolls guitar bullshit than I should.

Regardless, what I do is, I read about a guitar model, and then I want to see what's up with that. It should have some historical cachet but it doesn't need to be a historic instrument. That is, I take no joy in a well made Eastman version of a Gibson guitar, because it gives me no satisfaction to read about an imitation of a guitar and then get it, no matter how good it might be.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:26 pm

DeathJag wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:16 am
seenoevil II wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:34 am
In this thread I hope to explore the psychology at work when we lust for certain pieces of gear.
I truly don’t care about Gibson guitars. But this question is a fantastic one that has been buried by Gibson discussion!

I am convinced that many people on guitar forums, certainly myself, are trying to fill a void with gear, and then enjoy the “satisfaction” of sharing photos of it. This may sound weirdly condemning but I truly don’t mean it as a negative thing. It’s actually an awesome thing, because many of us don’t really have scenes that allow us to commiserate with like-minded people. So the question really is what exactly are we trying to accomplish? Are we just wasting time while we avoid dealing with our actual life stuff, or continuing toward our life goals with the online help of others?

The fact that there are many playable guitars out there, but this one has become a life quest, indicates that the music from the guitar is secondary. I realize this is a somewhat inflammatory opinion, but I really don’t mean it as a dis! Please don’t take this the wrong way, I am not trying to fight. I have the collector bug bad and I am trying to get rid of it, so speaking in these terms really helps me. I am speaking about myself. I have so many comics and records that have not made me happy. How do we “just play and not worry about collecting?” I don’t know!

So let’s look at other aspects of life. I have always wanted a classic car (a 40s Hudson Hornet!), but I know I will never own one. I am okay with that, because I have a perfectly functional car. It’s not beautiful and commands literally zero respect, but I ultimately see it as simply a tool for my life, not a defining aspect of it. So if guitars are the vehicles that bring us music, why not accept mid-priced vehicles? Especially if the sound is able to be duplicated.

But of course it’s not as simple as that, because playing a guitar and expressing oneself musically is from a far more intimate and creative endeavor than driving around. The difference between a Rolls Royce and a Toyota just aren’t enough to give a normal (not rich) person car-GAS. But necks, contours, bridges, pickups, finishes, etc, are far more important because they are part of an instrument we use to express ourselves creatively.

I played a Strat for 25 years before I realized that jags and JMs are what most surf music was played on. I became fascinated with Jaguars, and eventually sprung for a 2005 AVRI jag in 2018. It felt like I had been living in the dark my entire life. Suddenly the instrument was comfortable and sounded incredible. I don’t think I have picked up a Strat since. I don’t even care about getting a vintage jag, I am over the moon with the one I have. When I see threads like that fellow with his amazing Sherwood green and the rest of his collection, I just think something like wow that must be awesome. But no part of me has any desire to spend the money on one, and if I really wanted to I could afford it. At no point did I ever consider getting a cheaper model than the AVRI. Which brings up the great point that $2000 or $3000 is not that much for something that helps achieve life goals.

Amps? Well there is an area that I will most likely never stop GASing for. But I realize it is all just a tool set for creative expression, and that stops me from “foolishly” spending any more money on incredible vintage amps. But MAN I really need a 6g6B bassman! And a brown Bandy, and Tremolux. But I have enough amps, including some vintage ones, so why the hell should I need those?

In conclusion, I purport that the psychology you asked about has to do with ones life goals. If not owning something is preventing you from reaching your actual life goals (not short term), then you should suck it up and buy it. If it’s just marketing, then it’s time to do some deep internal diving and cure that bug.

Dan Izen
Lots of interesting stuff here.

I had never considered that sharing your gear acquisitions with like minded people online or in person in a joyous way is a huge motivator for a lot of folks. Just take this thread for example (and I have noticed that it has spawned a second, dedicated 335 sharing thread. Still waiting on that commission check, Levi's Man).

As for reducing GAS, I have noticed an inverse correlation between time spent researching or hunting for gear, and time spent playing gear. When I'm writing, working on a recording, or gigging regularly, my instrumental wanderlust tends to diminish. Though, admittedly, seeing my compatriots rock a really sweet piece of gear can get those juices flowing all over again. This inverse relationship might also go a ways to explaining the source of GAS. The forces that let us be productive with what we have might be the thing we're trying to plug up with new purchases. Sometimes, scouring the Internet for deals and the forums for information feels like being productive.

I think there's also a lot of weird identity stuff going on too. We project who we think we are and how we'd like to be perceived by others with our gear choices. I'll use Gibson as an example because most of their line-up have near identical specs in terms of the journey the string takes from tail piece to tuners. HB's, ToM's, 24.75", 12" radius, etc. it's all functionally the same between (most). models, but for most people, there's a very strong force that means they'll play a 335 over a Flying V, or a SG '62 over a burst LP, or an Explorer over a 175 etc etc. We're trying to put out a subtle energy with our guitars in a subconscious language we don't ourselves easily understand.

As for the point about life goals. I agree. If biting the bullet and buying a Gibson (even if their prices are a bit bloated) will move the needle on my music career, then I'd be nuts not to. Others have brought up other instruments and how expensive they are. Just last week, I met a harpist who brought her "cheap" harp to a gig and it cost $3,800. Yes this is complicated by the specific nature of the electric guitar and the electric guitar marketplace, but the principle still stands. Even if it's only because owning an expensive guitar will lead others to take me more seriously, and its modestly higher quality will lead me to play and sound that little bit better, then it's still worth doing- and 3k isn't that high a price to pay.

Honestly, with the way the used market has been, I've realized that I've not going to score any kind of deal on a 335 ever. I even think about getting one the dumbest way possible. Just going to musicians friend and clicking "add to cart." With the way inflation seems to be going, I should actually buy as many as I can and just hold them.

But I'll never do it. I've got some shit wrong with my noodle that means I'll never spend that much on myself like that. And even in the highly unlikely scenario that I actually get into therapy, make a bunch of changes, and finally take the deceptively mature and prudent decision to buy an overpriced status symbol for purely abstract psy-ops reasons, well, I'd never tell any of you. Too many of you have them now, so it's not as interesting an idea to me anymore. I'll probably just keep crying in my beer that the perfect Guild "62 Starfire II I bought got destroyed by UPS.

As for amps. I thank my lucky stars everyday that no matter how bad I try, I can't find amps interesting enough to care about. I got a Quilter a few months back, and it's good enough. So good enough in fact, that I don't think I'll ever care about amps again while it's still functioning. Cabinets are still a very annoying thing I have to think about. Like, I just can't bring myself to care or underand why 4ohms parallel sounds different than 16ohms series. I can't.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:52 pm

seenoevil II wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:26 pm
But I'll never do it. I've got some shit wrong with my noodle that means I'll never spend that much on myself like that. And even in the highly unlikely scenario that I actually get into therapy, make a bunch of changes, and finally take the deceptively mature and prudent decision to buy an overpriced status symbol for purely abstract psy-ops reasons, well, I'd never tell any of you. Too many of you have them now, so it's not as interesting an idea to me anymore. I'll probably just keep crying in my beer that the perfect Guild "62 Starfire II I bought got destroyed by UPS.
You know, it's funny, brother, but as long as we are on the subject of psychology, let me just get this out... you care a lot about what other people think of the guitars you buy.

I mean, firstly, over the course of this thread you've seen Mike get his first Gibson and then others and explore the whole Gibson thing. It's not like he's some big Gibson fanboy or whatever, he's just open to new things, and he's learning and growing. He may come to conclude that Gibson isn't his bag, or that some of it is, other parts aren't... whatever.

You've seen me talk about how I didn't always like Gibson, I know I get a pretty big reputation for liking Gibson on here, but for most of my guitar playing life I didn't like them.

You've seen other people talk about their ES-335s, but what you haven't seen is people talking about how they feel their guitars were overpriced, or status symbols or what have you. For me, I mean, just with Gibson alone I bought a Sonex for $200, I bought an M2 for the same. I buy guitars at all price points, and I show them off. If I think they are interesting for any reason I'll buy them and talk about them with other guitar players. I get even more excited when they are cheap and good, you know? Anyone can buy a five thousand dollar guitar and talk about it being good... but what's cool about my Sonex?

As far as a status symbol... Jesus. I bought my ES-335 for $2000 as you know, since I offered to sell it to you for the same amount. You really can't imagine that I'm showing off the fact that I was able to get together a $2000 purchase via PayPal Credit at 0% interest.

"Play your cards right, boys... maybe one day you can put together two thousand dollars."

Wait until I tell you how in the 90's me and my friends were able to rent a limousine. It had a CD player right in back and a wet bar!

I'm getting off track. I'm drinking a premium lager made by a local brewer, Budweiser. It was $11 for twelve of them.

Anyway, if you bought a 335, which I guess is lame now since some of us did, it would go like this:

"Hey guys, after all that talk, I bought an ES-335. Turns out I like it!"

Us: "Oh! Cool. Well, glad that worked out, then."

Or:

"You know what, I bought that ES-335, frankly, I didn't think it was all that much better than my Epiphone, you know? I think I'll sell it and get something else."

Us: "Yes. We grasp this concept. We, too, have purchased guitars, and for various reasons, sold them later. We understand that no guitar works for everyone, and we submit as evidence the fact that there are a wide variety of models made by various brands at various price points. This leads us to conclude that no person's sense of self worth should be wrapped up in any guitar purchase. We will therefore cease despising you for reminding us of our own limited resources in the face of your extravagant expenditure of over two thousand dollars, whereupon previously we were hoping for an early death for you confident in our knowledge that you would not be able to take your fancy-ass two thousand dollar guitar to hell with you."

Understand I am saying this with love, brother:

Buy whatever guitar makes you happy. Don't worry about what any other human being thinks about it. If it doesn't make you happy, just sell the motherfucker.

If I showed up here one day with the Norlin era Gibson Phallus, the one that shoots shaving cream out of the headstock, and talked about how I paid extra for the dark ebony fretboard on top of a Swarthy Walnut finish, you know what Mike would ask?

"Is that, uh, the one with the P90s, then, or what?"

No one gives a shit.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by luau » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:17 am

seenoevil II wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:26 pm
But I'll never do it. I've got some shit wrong with my noodle that means I'll never spend that much on myself like that. And even in the highly unlikely scenario that I actually get into therapy, make a bunch of changes, and finally take the deceptively mature and prudent decision to buy an overpriced status symbol for purely abstract psy-ops reasons, well, I'd never tell any of you. Too many of you have them now, so it's not as interesting an idea to me anymore. I'll probably just keep crying in my beer that the perfect Guild "62 Starfire II I bought got destroyed by UPS.
I hope you get that shit fixed because you're worth it and I'd hate to think you'd keep your delight, or frustration, with an instrument, any instrument, from us for purely abstract psy-ops reasons because sharing that delight, or frustration, is kind of what this place is about.

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