The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

[hulakatt]

The Special in anything other than yellow feels wrong also.

I dunno, carrying over from Jr's, I'd dig a burst Special or one in white. I'm more stubborn on Jr's and specials having wraptails. Get outta here with those ToMs!

[Embenny]

I wish they offered the ES-335 P90 variant in that color, I think I would not be able to resist.

Ok, so I just learned about how this whole "exclusive colour" business works, and I'm noticing that the previous two options (olive drab and black) were offered on the bound-neck Flying V.

No V listed yet in Deep Purple, either, but if they do list that, I think I'd feel compelled to sell my white one and buy it. Even if it's not my ideal shade, a purple flying V would make me lose my shit (I've been daydreaming about refinishing one of mine in metallic or sparkling purple).

So maybe you and I can both hold out hope that they'll offer all the Olive Drab models in Deep Purple as well.

[Despot]

How have I missed this thread … oh yeah… life stuff like having a kid!

So if any of you folks remember the years when I used to post you’ll know that I’m an ES guy as much as I’m an offset guy. I’ve had a whole bunch of ES guitars over the years - started off with a vintage ‘76 ES355, then a ‘62 ES345 - a few 70s ES345/335s, late 60s ES335 … etc etc. Just to remind everyone … I have spent ten years buying and flipping guitars with a goal to break even or make small profits so I could experience stuff and find what I loved. I cite this for context for some of what I’ll say next.

Gibson Quality Issues
You see … I’ve seen some howlers, but honestly not that much on the ES guitars I’ve handled, tried or owned. I’ve seen god awful finish issues on Firebirds, SGs and LPs - and so many instances of ‘dead’ guitars - especially lately with some of the Juniors and Specials that should have been great guitars but were lifeless pieces of wood (one SG junior was featherweight - and in vintage experience those sort just ring acoustically … this one was as dead as a boat anchor).

But … ES seemed to get better attention, at least in Memphis. I am also aware that maybe I have bias because of my source of data - I’m basing it on stuff I’ve owned or tried in a small number of second hand stores - ie there’s some sort of filtering there as people presumably bought the better ones from the stores that stock new Gibsons and the real mutts are probably still hanging on the walls of the same stores. Just my experience for whatever it’s worth.

Vintage are nice … but you can find modern that equal or better vintage
My only current ES is a 1964 ES335 with factory bigsby. It’s a great guitar … but I’d sell it in a heart beat to get back two guitars that I never should have sold - a 1959 ES 330 reissue that was, hands down, the best ES330 that I’ve ever owned or played (and even compared to a super lovely 65 I owned) and a 1990s ‘59 reissue/historic ES335 that I still can’t believe that I sold.

It’s taken me years to appreciate this point - but vintage doesn’t always beat new. There are certain things you’ll find hard to replicate on new … despite the efforts of multiple vintage repro pickup makers there’s something about old PAFs and Pat No pickups - let’s just call it variability - that’s hard to replicate when you aim for consistency in modern production. And I guess it’s hard to account for 50+ years of warping, wire coils changing, magnets degaussing etc. I’ve played modern guitars that sound phenomenal… but they also sound different. This feels less of an issue with P90s somehow with some repros being so so close.

Epiphone vs Gibson
I mentioned above regretting letting that ES330 reissue go … but here’s the thing … the next best ‘missing’ ES330 was a 2011 (iirc) Chinese made Epiphone Casino historic reissue - an anniversary model with Gibson pickups and decent wiring/pots/switch - that guitar cost me 500 euro and it was astonishingly good. 99% as good as the Gibson if you could get over the poly finish.

I don’t know what value my ramblings have… but OP I feel you on the ES gas I guess. When you find ‘the one’ just don’t be me and hold on to it!

[UlricvonCatalyst]

How have I missed this thread … oh yeah… life stuff like having a kid!

So if any of you folks remember the years when I used to post you’ll know that I’m an ES guy as much as I’m an offset guy. I’ve had a whole bunch of ES guitars over the years - started off with a vintage ‘76 ES355, then a ‘62 ES345 - a few 70s ES345/335s, late 60s ES335 … etc etc. Just to remind everyone … I have spent ten years buying and flipping guitars with a goal to break even or make small profits so I could experience stuff and find what I loved. I cite this for context for some of what I’ll say next.

Gibson Quality Issues
You see … I’ve seen some howlers, but honestly not that much on the ES guitars I’ve handled, tried or owned. I’ve seen god awful finish issues on Firebirds, SGs and LPs - and so many instances of ‘dead’ guitars - especially lately with some of the Juniors and Specials that should have been great guitars but were lifeless pieces of wood (one SG junior was featherweight - and in vintage experience those sort just ring acoustically … this one was as dead as a boat anchor).

But … ES seemed to get better attention, at least in Memphis. I am also aware that maybe I have bias because of my source of data - I’m basing it on stuff I’ve owned or tried in a small number of second hand stores - ie there’s some sort of filtering there as people presumably bought the better ones from the stores that stock new Gibsons and the real mutts are probably still hanging on the walls of the same stores. Just my experience for whatever it’s worth.

Vintage are nice … but you can find modern that equal or better vintage
My only current ES is a 1964 ES335 with factory bigsby. It’s a great guitar … but I’d sell it in a heart beat to get back two guitars that I never should have sold - a 1959 ES 330 reissue that was, hands down, the best ES330 that I’ve ever owned or played (and even compared to a super lovely 65 I owned) and a 1990s ‘59 reissue/historic ES335 that I still can’t believe that I sold.

It’s taken me years to appreciate this point - but vintage doesn’t always beat new. There are certain things you’ll find hard to replicate on new … despite the efforts of multiple vintage repro pickup makers there’s something about old PAFs and Pat No pickups - let’s just call it variability - that’s hard to replicate when you aim for consistency in modern production. And I guess it’s hard to account for 50+ years of warping, wire coils changing, magnets degaussing etc. I’ve played modern guitars that sound phenomenal… but they also sound different. This feels less of an issue with P90s somehow with some repros being so so close.

Epiphone vs Gibson
I mentioned above regretting letting that ES330 reissue go … but here’s the thing … the next best ‘missing’ ES330 was a 2011 (iirc) Chinese made Epiphone Casino historic reissue - an anniversary model with Gibson pickups and decent wiring/pots/switch - that guitar cost me 500 euro and it was astonishingly good. 99% as good as the Gibson if you could get over the poly finish.

I don’t know what value my ramblings have… but OP I feel you on the ES gas I guess. When you find ‘the one’ just don’t be me and hold on to it!

Welcome back, and congratulations on the life stuff!

[hulakatt]

Gibson Quality Issues
You see … I’ve seen some howlers, but honestly not that much on the ES guitars I’ve handled, tried or owned. I’ve seen god awful finish issues on Firebirds, SGs and LPs - and so many instances of ‘dead’ guitars - especially lately with some of the Juniors and Specials that should have been great guitars but were lifeless pieces of wood (one SG junior was featherweight - and in vintage experience those sort just ring acoustically … this one was as dead as a boat anchor).

But … ES seemed to get better attention, at least in Memphis. I am also aware that maybe I have bias because of my source of data - I’m basing it on stuff I’ve owned or tried in a small number of second hand stores - ie there’s some sort of filtering there as people presumably bought the better ones from the stores that stock new Gibsons and the real mutts are probably still hanging on the walls of the same stores. Just my experience for whatever it’s worth.

It's hard to imagine from how we see Gibson now but for a very long time at Gibson, the solid body models were viewed somewhere between a flash in the pan and an outright joke. Solid bodies were not real guitars as far as the old luthiers and makers saw it and I think they just put more effort into guitars they viewed as "worthy" like the ES and the jazzboxes and the acoustics. I think I've found the Les Paul to be the most wildly inconsistent model from Gibson over the years.

[Embenny]

I think I've found the Les Paul to be the most wildly inconsistent model from Gibson over the years.

That's less to do with QC and more to do with design decisions.

The formula of using a maple/poplar laminate with a centre block and two PAFs on the 335 pretty much never changed.

Meanwhile, the Les Paul would go through a million incarnations. Maple cap on mahogany body. All-mahogany body. Thin all-mahogany body with devil horns. Mahogany body with a 3-piece maple neck. Mahogany/maple/mahogany "pancake" sandwich body. P90s. PAFs. Low-impedance pickups with active circuitry. Mini-humbuckers. Ultra-high-output humbuckers. 2 pickups. 3 pickups. 1 pickup. Trapeze tailpiece. Wraptail. TOM and stop tailpiece. TOM and vibrola. Kahler vibrato. These are literally all features you can find find on vintage Les Paul models. That's before you even get to the modern era and throw in umpteen different weight relief schemes, woods, pickup schemes, Floyds, etc.

With the 335, the changes were mostly things like "The roundness of the horns changed subtly" and "this era uses T-tops, which are basically PAFs but not quite."

It's best to think of the Les Paul as a gigantic family of loosely-associated models, because that's what it is. The 335 was always just the 335, with gradual era-specific changes.

I miss mine. It was probably my biggest eyebrow-raiser when I started giving Gibsons a fair shot. Fantastic guitar. Its only real failing was that it was very heavy, and I prefer to play standing up, and this was right around the time I discovered that a featherweight Flying V could do whatever I needed a Gibson to do.

[hulakatt]

I was much more referring to QC consistency as well as consistency from guitar to guitar within the same models and same years. Despite that Gibson seems to treat the LP as it's flagship in it's advertising and corporate image, they really seem to treat it more like a redheaded stepchild when it comes down to actually building the damn things. They really are the most slapped-together of all the Gibsons.

[Embenny]

I was much more referring to QC consistency as well as consistency from guitar to guitar within the same models and same years. Despite that Gibson seems to treat the LP as it's flagship in it's advertising and corporate image, they really seem to treat it more like a redheaded stepchild when it comes down to actually building the damn things. They really are the most slapped-together of all the Gibsons.

I guess my point was that the Les Paul has had models all up and down the price ladder. The Les Paul Custom has always been a flagship sort of guitar that cost as much or more than the majority of the ES line, while some of them pushed to the absolute low end of Gibson's lineup. I don't have firsthand experience, but I wouldnt be surprised if Les Paul Customs had ES-like consistency.

I agree that LPs are the most slapped-together Gibsons, because they were essentially a perpetual testbed for feature changes in a way that the ES guitars never were.

[kamillebidan]

If anyone's interested in the new Deep Purple finish, a demo of an ES-335 in the color has popped up on the Gibson Demo Shop at a decent (?) price.

https://reverb.com/item/64733757-gibson ... urple-demo

[efiug]

my experience with the deep purple finish is that it seems to attract scratches like a magnet, but it does look really nice in person and I wished they did it on more models than they do, same with all finishes really.