OffsetGuitars.com

Although it seems small and insignificant, the idea that women are simply here for the gaze and gratification of men, and therefore can be reduced to sexualizing inanimate objects like a guitar is a good example of how we contribute to the problem (ie 'rape culture'). Women of color are marginalized even more in this way, suggesting the only thing they have to offer is sex, often in the taboo sense. The fact Fender is dumb enough to post something like this, and that people don't see it as a big deal, shows how pervasive and normalized these issues are.

I didn’t even make the connection to women, and figured they were talking about the wood. But I can see the other side and agree it can easily be taken as being in poor taste. It’s a real thing and should absolutely be called out. Guitars do have necks and heels and curves, so there is a little bit of human body association, but they made it creepy.

As a final thought - if anyone does not see the big deal, you are not seeing the whole picture.

Had I seen it ahead of the hubub, I'm not sure it would have registered as offensive. Maybe that's because I remember ads from guitar magazines in the 80s--I don't think anyone would try that now, and that's for the best. Knowing that some do find it offensive, it strikes me that in a world of in your face ugliness, this one is very low on the list. As PR, the company can double down or cut its losses, Fender chose the latter, which makes sense for them.

That's the point, it is so normalized that it doesn't even register as offensive anymore and that's what's so fucked up about it.

I definitely agree it was in poor taste, and pretty skeezy too.

I can certainly think of more offensive guitar-is-woman tropes, but it's definitely time for this shyte to go away forever.

Was it Guitar World that used to publish a buyer's guide every year with barely clad women basically humping every piece of gear pictured?

(was it me that liked to thumb through said buyer's guide at the newsstand?)

I'm glad we're doing better, but we've got a ways to go yet.

tribi9 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:03 am

Guitars are not :

Her
She
Sexy
Juanita
Brazilians
Ladies

Its fucking stupid. Really.

This, 100%

Telliot wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 am

Although it seems small and insignificant, the idea that women are simply here for the gaze and gratification of men, and therefore can be reduced to sexualizing inanimate objects like a guitar is a good example of how we contribute to the problem (ie 'rape culture'). Women of color are marginalized even more in this way, suggesting the only thing they have to offer is sex, often in the taboo sense. The fact Fender is dumb enough to post something like this, and that people don't see it as a big deal, shows how pervasive and normalized these issues are.

Well written, Todd.

When I saw it, it didn't even scan correctly as a sensible sentence in English. It felt off.

Then I read it again, and it felt creepy.

Fender might want to put their social media coordinator in Fender Jail for a while. That post was 100% EEEEEEEWWWWW.

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:37 pm

When I saw it, it didn't even scan correctly as a sensible sentence in English. It felt off.

Then I read it again, and it felt creepy.

Exactly my reactions.

Incredibly tone deaf stuff in 2021, but also seems par for the course that weird/creepy stuff like this still happens in 'guitar culture' and the proportion of guys that are more, er, advanced in years that are still heavily involved in the industry.

Telliot wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 am

Although it seems small and insignificant, the idea that women are simply here for the gaze and gratification of men, and therefore can be reduced to sexualizing inanimate objects like a guitar is a good example of how we contribute to the problem (ie 'rape culture'). Women of color are marginalized even more in this way, suggesting the only thing they have to offer is sex, often in the taboo sense. The fact Fender is dumb enough to post something like this, and that people don't see it as a big deal, shows how pervasive and normalized these issues are.

This is extremely well said.

I saw it first on the custom shop post and then the Fender post. It raised my hackles; I’m disappointed.

So who’s Fender’s social media guy?

PorkyPrimeCut wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:53 pm

tribi9 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:03 am

Guitars are not :

Her
She
Sexy
Juanita
Brazilians
Ladies

Its fucking stupid. Really.

This, 100%

I think if people wanna think of guitars as Her or She, that much is cool. This is just something people do, we anthropomorphise stuff as some kind of by-product of our social brain and it's got to do with forming connections. This is ingrained in language too, in Spanish for example, even if it's not a convention in English. Some stuff specifically gets gendered masculine and some feminine.

There's a clear difference between that and talking about Brazilians on your lap and I figure that is the domain of sexually frustrated nerds and indeed with some semiotic echoes about how blatant tropes about exoticism, sexuality and subjugation used to be used in advertising back in the days to sell coffee, rum, anything coming out of the wild Southern yonder.

If you wanna think they're all equally stupid that's cool too, but I figure there's a line in the sand where one side is harmless and one really is perpetuating a lot of old bullshit and the two sides get unnecessarily lumped together. Fender has done this kind of thing before, I mean, some of you guys own a Cabronita, right? And that's a 21st century model designation. There was even that reverse offset variation for a bit called the Cabrona Borracha or something similar.

That stuff verges on toxic, whereas I don't mind someone referring to a guitar as she. BB King calling his es-345 "Lucille" has never bothered or offended anyone I think.

Just some perspective and nuance.

countertext wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:23 pm

So who’s Fender’s social media guy?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say no longer the guy who wrote that.

schoolie wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:39 am

The world's on fire. This is pretty low on my list.

Then don’t chime in with whataboutery.

andy_tchp wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:06 pm

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:37 pm

When I saw it, it didn't even scan correctly as a sensible sentence in English. It felt off.

Then I read it again, and it felt creepy.

Exactly my reactions.

Incredibly tone deaf stuff in 2021, but also seems par for the course that weird/creepy stuff like this still happens in 'guitar culture' and the proportion of guys that are more, er, advanced in years that are still heavily involved in the industry.

See also: TGP's countless threads complaining about "The Wife," or bitching about whether a female musician is hot or not.

PorkyPrimeCut wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:53 pm

tribi9 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:03 am

Guitars are not :

Her
She
Sexy
Juanita
Brazilians
Ladies

Its fucking stupid. Really.

This, 100%

Actually, in some languages guitars are "she" and "her". Speaking for myself, as a french person, we don't have a "it". Therefore, all our objects denominations are "he" or "she". A guitar in french is a "she", and not a "it", which would be fucking stupid
It took me a whiiiiiile to get to write "it" for a guitar on that very forum when I refer to a guitar. It's an effort really.