Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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raphaël
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Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by raphaël » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:32 am

Hello,
I have a trade offer including an Ibanez 2467. It's an 80s es 345 copy. Seller claims it's a SA 400, but inlays are wrong and point to a 2467. Or 2457.
But, due to the lack of inlay on the first position + the headstock shape of that guitar I have the feeling that it's actually an Aria Pro II ES 800.
Before you ask I will have photos later from the seller this week-end.
The actual guitar has a Gibson logo on it. But it's a good looking guitar and it has a pair of 70s T-tops Gibson HBs...
When I was young, I considered Aria Pro II as "not good guitars". And this vision is stuck in my mind since 25 years :D
Are they good? Compared to Ibanez? Fugijen vs Matsumoku? Values between those two brand?
I might be blind because of an old belief :P

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UlricvonCatalyst
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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:34 am

Yeah, for whatever reason Matsumokus tend to go for a bit less than Fuji-Gens. If I had to guess I'd say one reason is that in the post-lawsuit era Matsumoku's designs diverged more from the traditional stylings that Fuji-Gen became evermore associated with, the supposition being that because they looked quite like American guitars they were of similar quality.

That supposition isn't entirely wrong, as Fuji-Gen have indeed continued producing great quality guitars, but the same would almost certainly be true of Matsumoku if they were still around. It's the off-brand names on the headstocks, and slightly more innovative designs that make Matsumokus less pricey, not the quality.

For what it's worth, I loved my Westone Thunder 1A bass, which I'd put alongside anything else you care to name both in build quality and sound, and I don't doubt that many other Matsumoku guitars are every bit as good.

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raphaël
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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by raphaël » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:52 am

Ok, thanks, that's good to read.
I will have pictures soon to post.

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by MrFingers » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:43 am

They're going for absurd amounts of money because they're one of the rare copies of a 345 that are true to the concept of it (varitone). I'm in the market for one myself, and I got a few offers going from 1900 to 3000€, which is absurd.

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:55 am

Sorry, without pics of the Fuji-Gen 345-alike I strayed wildly off the point.

Come to think of it I've never come across a lawsuit ES-3XX with a varitone, but if I ever did I'd jump on it, pronto. Hard to see how you could go wrong with it....unless your trade involves you offering something of considerably greater value.

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by Pacafeliz » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:54 am

UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:55 am
Sorry, without pics of the Fuji-Gen 345-alike I strayed wildly off the point.

Come to think of it I've never come across a lawsuit ES-3XX with a varitone, but if I ever did I'd jump on it, pronto. Hard to see how you could go wrong with it....unless your trade involves you offering something of considerably greater value.
I've had several MIJ lawsuits with varitone. The 345 I sold to Pat (kimjongill) had one too. It was branded EL DÉGAS

Image

Great stuff. But not thousands of €€€ stuff
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:16 pm

Pacafeliz wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:54 am
UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:55 am
I've never come across a lawsuit ES-3XX with a varitone
I've had several MIJ lawsuits with varitone....Great stuff. But not thousands of €€€ stuff
Could be less common in the UK, perhaps? Did yours come from your time in America or Europe?

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by Pacafeliz » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:20 am

UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:16 pm
Pacafeliz wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:54 am
UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:55 am
I've never come across a lawsuit ES-3XX with a varitone
I've had several MIJ lawsuits with varitone....Great stuff. But not thousands of €€€ stuff
Could be less common in the UK, perhaps? Did yours come from your time in America or Europe?
That one was in Mexico.
Here in the EU, I have had two old Ibanez ones, as well, iirc
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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raphaël
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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by raphaël » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:08 am

Here is the guitar.
With obvious ""flaws'', like the Gibson logo (Apparently, first owner was ashamed to play a non-Gibson ES345 back in the 80s/90s), no vibrola (even if I think there wasn't even one on that guitar), and the removed Varitone switch (which isn't a problem for me as versality usually makes me run away).

Image
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Image

Even if seller said it's an Ibanez on his listing, he doesn't know what this guitar is for sure.
Me, I really think it could be an Aria ES-800.

I'll ask for pickups' bottom pictures, and for a neck pickup cavity picture also. I understand that, if it's a Matsumoku, there would be a tenon and a philipps screw? Right?
Anything else ?
I'd realy like to identify that ES345 before the trade...
We'll do it hand by hand by the way, in a 3 weeks or so.

Thanks for watching :) !!

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by sessylU » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:15 am

Dunno this model, but many (most?) Matsumoku humbuckered guitars had MMK45 pickups. They're hottish PAF type things.

I really like MMK45s, but they've started creeping up in value.

Could ask for a photo of the back of the pickups? They're usually stamped MMK45.

I have few sets, one of which I bought to cannibalise and try to fix up. I'm sure I have a stack of photos somewhere of the different MMK45s I have....
a total idiot jackass

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raphaël
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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by raphaël » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:21 am

Pickups are actually 70s Gibson t-tops on that very guitar.
Which is great 8)

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by sessylU » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:24 am

Ah, sorry missed that.

In that case, talk the price down a bit more because he doesn't have the original pickups!
a total idiot jackass

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by GreenKnee » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:45 am

Removed (i.e RIPPED OUT) varitone! Looks cool though

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Re: Need infos : ES 345 japan copy

Post by DaddyDom » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:38 am

The bridge says Aria to me more than Ibanez.
But also, they were both good brands, I wouldn't stress which one is 5% better unless you plan to own both and can do an A/B comparision, there's no point.

if this were the last guitar on earth, it would be just great! ;)

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