I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Fiddy » Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:54 pm

Not sure if one of the New Epiphones or and older Burny, Greco, Orville etc.

The new Epiphones have good reviews.. Though I've found that some times that doesn't really mean ill end up agreeing with said reviews..

This time though im inclined to think the new Epiphones would have the better pickups.. But if I wanted a lyre, then id be s.o.l. and I just might want one.. Don't know yet.

Maybe I'll need to wait til they open stores again.. Test the Epiphone and then make the call..

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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by JSett » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:32 pm

tribi9 wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:54 pm
Not sure if one of the New Epiphones or and older Burny, Greco, Orville etc.

The new Epiphones have good reviews.. Though I've found that some times that doesn't really mean ill end up agreeing with said reviews..

This time though im inclined to think the new Epiphones would have the better pickups.. But if I wanted a lyre, then id be s.o.l. and I just might want one.. Don't know yet.

Maybe I'll need to wait til they open stores again.. Test the Epiphone and then make the call..
If you don't care what's on the headstock, or about a nitro finish, then Epiphone seems the logical move. We know they're built very very well these days and if you don't like the pickups then the savings over a Gibson one mean you can spend on a nice vintage-correct set.

I had a Gibson non-reverse one in 2018 and the pickups didn't sound much like real Firebirds and I couldn't get what I wanted from it so moved it on. Apart from that it was great but I didn't want to mess with it so just cut it loose.

Of you can find an old Greco then that would be awesome but I think I've only ever seen them with humbuckers.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by zhivago » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:32 pm

I'm not sure what the lawsuit versions are like, but the Epiphones I've seen were not through-neck, like the original Firebirds...they were normal glued-neck like most Gibsons (and like non-reverse Firebirds of the mid 60s).

This may or may not matter to you, as the look of the guitar and feel is still there...but as far as I know only Gibsons are true construction Firebirds. Maybe the new tokays are too, I haven't checked lately.

And then some of the newer Gibson ones don't have the matching paint on the headstock which irks me a bit. I've been on-and-off looking at picking up one every now and then. Well, every time I see PJ Harvey play one on YouTube or something! :D
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Zork » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:14 am

Congrats, that's a great decision! ;D
The new Eips are neck through and laminated just as the original, at least that's what they say on their website. The old Grecos and Burnys might not but they are very, very rare anyway, no? The missing lyre vibrola on the Epis is a bummer, though. Maybe just install one and hope that the holes from the tailpiece are mostly covered? I've seen a modified Epi on ebay recently. It looked alright but that could have been clever photography...

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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by zhivago » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:40 am

Very cool if they are doing the new Epiphone Firebirds right!

It makes picking one up very tempting indeed!! 8)


*edit*

Yep it looks like the new ones are neck-through!

https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/Guitar/E ... e-Sunburst
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by cincinnatiharry » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 am

So I am a firebird nerd.

Some things to consider.

Pickups:

Many USA Gibsons have stock ceramic pickups. That’s cool if you like ceramic, I prefer AlNiCo. Jason Lollar makes some amazing Firebird pickups, but they come with a huge price tag.

String break angle:

Image

Image


Modern Gibson USA and Epiphones use regular tuners, this changes the break angle off the nut. One of the beautiful things about the original design is the strings go straight (with exception to the Gibson 14 to 17 degree angle on the headstock that all Gibson guitars have).

Straight helps with tuning stability.

In my opinion the Steinberger tuners are better than the vintage banjo tuners. The Steinberger machine heads lock the string in. However the banjo tuners give it that vintage look.

The Greco Firebirds are amazing. Very well made. Look for used, my main Gibson USA Firebird cost me €700 used. The current guitar market sucks and you’re gonna pay a premium due to the global logistics issues at present, it’s raising the price of everything.

Consider a “non-reverse” Firebird style body, they are set neck (versus neck thru) neck through Firebirds are great but more fickle with regards to temperature and humidity changes.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:34 am

I have one of the 2020 Inspired By Gibson Epiphone Firebirds. They're neck-though construction. The pickups sound incredible and the guitar is fitted with CTS pots, stock. I'm serious about the pickups- I expect them to sound like hot trash on any sub $1000 guitar, but these probuckers are really nice sounding. The neck might be one of my favorites that I've ever owned. The tuners are okay, I'm not in a hurry to change them. it has a flaw- there is a small drop of finish where the fretboard meets the body. It doesn't show up when I photograph it. that is the only flaw I've found. They're an incredible value, even better that I got mine from Zzounds for 15% off last June.

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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:30 am

Yes, the new Epiphones are neck through, well made, and have nice Alnico 2 pickups are are better than the ceramic ones that Gibson was using back in the day.

However, as has been mentioned above, by using regular guitar tuners on a guitar not designed for regular guitar tuners, you get some compromises. Firstly, to me, they look weird on there, secondly you get string pull that is other than the straight pull the Firebird was designed to have.

The newer Gibsons of the last couple of years flattened out the headstock in order to accommodate the Grover tuners, you get the same situation there.

So, here is where I would recommend getting a Firebird with the Steinberger tuners, which is what I have. It's a top of the line no compromise guitar with the notable exception of the ceramic pickups. You may like those, however, you may need an expensive pickup upgrade down the road.

Gibson has been all over the place with Firebirds.

I can't speak to the Grecos and such.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by seenoevil II » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:36 am

I had a IBG firebird for a few weeks. I ultimately returned it because it had dicey frer work and it was so good that it IBG or Inspired me to buy a gibson. The only trouble is that the gibsons aren't in stock anywhere. CmE was supposed to get more this month but no dice.
With the epiphone, the frets were the only let down. And considering that this was a out of the box, new guitar made in humid China, being opened in 20% humidity 20° F new jersey, I don't hold it against anyone. It would've been covered under warranty anyway. The finish was perfect. It felt an amazing to play. Thin flat neck profile. Finish was perfect.

The pickups were great. Real loud with lots of chime. A lot of high end. Like maybe too much. But to say it could do fender tones is mostly accurate. They're like a compressed envelope fender tone. That is, some of the attack is spread out to the longer decay. The only thing I'm curious about is that the epiphone probuckers are AlNiCo II where the OG and (as of 2020) reissues are AlNiCo V. There was a little twang deficit between what I heard in demos and what I heard in person, and I think maybe that was the cause. Still, amazing pickups. Amazing guitar. Actually kinda regret returning it.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Fiddy » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:12 am

A lot of good info here.

This is making me rethink the approach. Maybe one with the Steinberger tuners is what i need then.

or...

Would there be any issues swapping the tuners to Steinbergers if I were to get the Epiphone?

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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Embenny » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:22 am

tribi9 wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:12 am
A lot of good info here.

This is making me rethink the approach. Maybe one with the Steinberger tuners is what i need then.

or...

Would there be any issues swapping the tuners to Steinbergers if I were to get the Epiphone?
The headstock design is completely different, it's not possible to retrofit them. I've owned both and vastly prefer the Steinbergers. Only problem was that they came on an absolutely beautiful Firebird that happened to be the worst-playing piece of shit with a "Gibson" logo that I've ever laid hands on.

And I say that as a recent Gibson convert who now owns several of their guitars. Man, was that guitar ever a lemon. I got an insane trade deal for it though (the lemon and a total lemon of an Eastwood for a particularly nice ES-335) so I look back fondly on my time with it.

Don't think it had anything to do with the tuners, though. The neck on it was fucked, and was impossible to set up nicely.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by del » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:24 am

I have an early 200s Epiphone Firebird VII (three pickups and a vibrola). It has regular ceramic mini humbuckers (not true firebird pickups), a set neck (not neck-through), and conventional tuners (not banjo or steinberger) with the slightly different headstock to accommodate them.

It's GREAT! Looks cool, the pickups roar and chime as needed (though I've though about trying to find some real firebird ones cuz those sound great or maybe switching out the middle pcikup for a goldfoil equivalent), and the tuning is stable even with the vibrola (though I use it for spacey shimmer and not dive-bombing). It is definitely a different sort of guitar relative to balance and there is a little neck dive, but I feel great when I put it on and play it!
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by cincinnatiharry » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:29 am

tribi9 wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:12 am
A lot of good info here.

This is making me rethink the approach. Maybe one with the Steinberger tuners is what i need then.

or...

Would there be any issues swapping the tuners to Steinbergers if I were to get the Epiphone?
Any Firebird with 6 on the side “normal” machine heads can’t take the Steinbergers or banjo tuners… the Steinberger and banjo tuners aren’t really on the side as much they go on an angle up towards the center (but not at the center) the layout is different.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:49 am

My advice is to get one of the Gibsons with the Steinberger tuners and then deal with the pickups down the road. Granted, that's exactly what I did, but Gibson was making great Firebirds then in the classic way, no compromises, and the Steinberger tuners are better than most anyway.
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Re: I want a firebird. Here are the nominees :

Post by Fiddy » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:55 am

Is there a year range they made them with the Steinbergers?

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