The official Kinman pickups thread

[Embenny]

Bit the bullet and finally ordered a set of Kinmans for my AVRI strat. They've got a 15% sale going on their web site, but there's a dealer in Australia that is selling them at an even better price on Reverb.

This is the shop. No affiliation other than having just ordered mine.

They've got some Jag, JM, Tele, P90 and humbucker options as well. If you're in the market for some Kinmans, the prices are about as good as you'll find on new ones.

I went for the Knopfler set, which is the same as the Clapton set, and both those names make me cringe. But that's just Kinman's way of saying it's a set of three Impersonator 56 models, which are the lower output of his two "pre-CBS" models, and higher output than his "post CBS" models (the Impersonator 69/Blackmore set, and the "Scoop" model).

If anyone needs help decoding his indecipherable model names, let me know. As stupid as his advertising and web site are, his pickups are pretty much peerless among noiseless models.

[JSett]

The noiselessness of the Kinmans I now have in my Jag and JM have totally spoiled me now. Heating 60 cycle hum from my other guitars now feels horrible

[GreenKnee]

The noiselessness of the Kinmans I now have in my Jag and JM have totally spoiled me now. Heating 60 cycle hum from my other guitars now feels horrible

*50Hz

I'm scared about trying some because of the rave reviews from people here. I don't want to be spoiled by a lack of noise because my favourite sounding guitars have some noise to them and I don't want to start disliking them. I'm currently upgrading a CIJ Jag and I am so close to buying some but resisting the urge for now.

[JSett]

The noiselessness of the Kinmans I now have in my Jag and JM have totally spoiled me now. Heating 60 cycle hum from my other guitars now feels horrible

*50Hz

Lol, I was trying to appeal to the larger US contingent here

[Embenny]

The noiselessness of the Kinmans I now have in my Jag and JM have totally spoiled me now. Heating 60 cycle hum from my other guitars now feels horrible

I know, right? This is going to be my third set, and I don't really pick up my noisy Fenders anymore (which are growing fewer and fewer in number).

I basically only play noiseless "single coils" and bright humbuckers now (Firebirds, Filtertrons, Twangmasters, low wind PAFs). There's just no compelling reason to put up with hum when my guitars can sound this good without it.

I'm scared about trying some because of the rave reviews from people here. I don't want to be spoiled by a lack of noise because my favourite sounding guitars have some noise to them and I don't want to start disliking them. I'm currently upgrading a CIJ Jag and I am so close to buying some but resisting the urge for now.

Just buy the Kinmans and enjoy the noiseless Jag. You'll then figure out whether the noise from your other guitars is a dealbreaker. If you love the way they sound, that won't change. But you might find yourself using the better tool for the job (which in my case is a guitar that doesn't blare unwanted noise whenever I use gain or am in a noisy environment).

It's been very good for controlling my GAS. I basically don't buy Fender style guitars anymore, because Kinmans are expensive and I know I won't bother playing them when I have an equally great-sounding noiseless alternative available. I still have three Fenders with noisy pickups that I'm dragging my feet buying Kinmans for, for various reasons. But the reality is that none of them are getting played much, and probably won't until they have Kinmans in them.

[Embenny]

Just wanted to update this thread to day that I talked to the dealer, and he can apparently get any Kinman pickups at his advertised price, and he's willing to bundle multiple pickups at his listed shipping price.

So, I think this is it for me. The price is a good 25% lower than what I paid when I ordered direct from the Kinman web site. I think I'll be ordering the Mustang pickups and second set of Jaguar pickups I've hemmed and hawed about for two years.

Kinman has proven to me that they're my end game for my Fenders, and the only thing holding me back was the price. But with this dealer/sale, I think I need to put my money where my mouth is and just rip that bandaid off all at once. I sold a bunch of guitars this year, so I've got some room in the guitar budget. I had been thinking that I'd spend it on a nice sparkly or metallic refinish of one of my Flying Vs, but the reality is that having all my guitars sounding their best is a higher priority than sparkles.

I guess there are going to be a bunch of mod threads as I go through and put these in all my guitars.

[Larry Mal]

basically don't buy Fender style guitars anymore, because Kinmans are expensive and I know I won't bother playing them when I have an equally great-sounding noiseless alternative available. I still have three Fenders with noisy pickups that I'm dragging my feet buying Kinmans for, for various reasons. But the reality is that none of them are getting played much, and probably won't until they have Kinmans in them.

That's how I came to think, and I can't see buying another Fender guitar at any point. I had a Fender Lead 2 that had a neck pickup I just adored, but one day I realized I was never going to use it for anything, so out it went.

I'll look into those prices... Kinman is weird, some of their pickups don't cost so much, but then you get to the P90s and they cost a ton.

[JSett]

some of their pickups don't cost so much, but then you get to the P90s and they cost a ton.

I wondered if that was to do with the magnets. He professes to use his special magic AlNiCo "K" magnets and I guess the actual amount of that material on a P90 is massive compared to the little rods in a strat/JM/Jag/etc.

[Embenny]

some of their pickups don't cost so much, but then you get to the P90s and they cost a ton.

I wondered if that was to do with the magnets. He professes to use his special magic AlNiCo "K" magnets and I guess the actual amount of that material on a P90 is massive compared to the little rods in a strat/JM/Jag/etc.

Having done deep dives on these pickups at multiple points, there's a legitimate reason for this.

The Kinman P90 and Jazzmaster share the same construction method, which is vastly different from the strat/tele/jag/mustang ones. He didn't offer a JM model until he designed his P90, and realized the same design principles would apply due to the geometry of the bobbins.

Basically, his "regular" single coils have a 600-ohm air coil on the bottom, which is magnetically shielded so as to minimize its impact on the tone of the single coil above it. That whole assembly then has a claw/cage to improve noise rejection and focus the magnetic field (which would otherwise be weak due to the lower gauss of his alnico blend).

But he found that scaling that design up to P90 size didn't work. The geometry was too different, and he couldn't get a convincing single coil tone with it.

What he ended up doing was using a stack of something like 200 thin metal rings welded or soldered together in place of a copper wire air coil. It provided the necessary "noise antenna" function while having a much lower impact on the tone than a traditional coil. But instead of winding a coil by machine, they have to be loaded onto the bobbin by hand and either spot welded or soldered together (I forget which). I suspect it's actually welded, because the metal itself is something that doesn't take to solder.

So the P90 and JM model are significantly more labour-intensive to make, hence the higher price. It's not just a matter of "big pickup = more materials," but rather a matter of an entirely different process to make them.

[Embenny]

That's how I came to think, and I can't see buying another Fender guitar at any point. I had a Fender Lead 2 that had a neck pickup I just adored, but one day I realized I was never going to use it for anything, so out it went.

Yeah, it's taken me time to accept this. Despite the outward appearances of my many Flying V NGD posts, I've thinned the herd significantly this year and am still in the process of doing so.

Kinman really made the math easy. I can stop subdividing my collection into guitars that are cool but noisy, and guitars I actually use. Everything is going to be either noiseless or gone at this point. And, fortunately, he only has so many different pickup models. No point in owning a Fender without Kinmans, and no point in having the same pickup in multiple guitars.

[tammyw]

Is the Kinman site gone now, or did they change the address?

[Embenny]

Is the Kinman site gone now, or did they change the address?

Huh. Weird. I visited it multiple times before I ordered. Not loading for me either, now.

[JSett]

some of their pickups don't cost so much, but then you get to the P90s and they cost a ton.

I wondered if that was to do with the magnets. He professes to use his special magic AlNiCo "K" magnets and I guess the actual amount of that material on a P90 is massive compared to the little rods in a strat/JM/Jag/etc.

Having done deep dives on these pickups at multiple points, there's a legitimate reason for this.

The Kinman P90 and Jazzmaster share the same construction method, which is vastly different from the strat/tele/jag/mustang ones. He didn't offer a JM model until he designed his P90, and realized the same design principles would apply due to the geometry of the bobbins.

Basically, his "regular" single coils have a 600-ohm air coil on the bottom, which is magnetically shielded so as to minimize its impact on the tone of the single coil above it. That whole assembly then has a claw/cage to improve noise rejection and focus the magnetic field (which would otherwise be weak due to the lower gauss of his alnico blend).

But he found that scaling that design up to P90 size didn't work. The geometry was too different, and he couldn't get a convincing single coil tone with it.

What he ended up doing was using a stack of something like 200 thin metal rings welded or soldered together in place of a copper wire air coil. It provided the necessary "noise antenna" function while having a much lower impact on the tone than a traditional coil. But instead of winding a coil by machine, they have to be loaded onto the bobbin by hand and either spot welded or soldered together (I forget which). I suspect it's actually welded, because the metal itself is something that doesn't take to solder.

So the P90 and JM model are significantly more labour-intensive to make, hence the higher price. It's not just a matter of "big pickup = more materials," but rather a matter of an entirely different process to make them.

Wow, that sounds like quite the process - and justifies the seemingly exorbitant pricing. Thanks for that rundown

[Embenny]

Wow, that sounds like quite the process - and justifies the seemingly exorbitant pricing. Thanks for that rundown

No problem. I feel a bit like a detective or historian when it comes to Kinman pickups. It's so hard getting straight information on them due his kinda kooky nature.

It was an ancient forum post by Chris Kinman himself where I read that bit about the metal rings and the P90. He had some sort of friend/client who kept harassing him about making JM and once he figured out the P90, he tried swapping alnico poles into the P90 design and realized it worked. He offers an alnico-pole P90 design that is basically the prototype of what became the Surfmaster JM model after a few tweaks.

All I need is a cork board and some red string.

[Larry Mal]

He offers an alnico-pole P90 design that is basically the prototype of what became the Surfmaster JM model after a few tweaks.

Yes, the "staple" pickups, although they don't look like staple pickups.

You recommended those to me and they are absolutely incredible pickups.