The official Kinman pickups thread

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
Post Reply
User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:31 am

Atilla the Hum wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:47 pm
G'day fellas, Chris Kinman here. I've become aware that some don't care for the names Punk-Tang and Grunge-Tank for my Mustang pickups. When I came up with those names I wanted to link the musical genre with the type of pickup and it seemed a no brainer, especially when I just couldn't think of anything else that satisfied the brief for naming protocol. After all it worked for my Jazzmaster models but I do admit that Punk-Tang sounded somewhat ... er ... cringeworthy!!! So here I am asking for suggestions from all you nice people who said otherwise nice things about my pickups as well as those who criticized the present names.

The brief is to link the musical genre with the type of pickup and not be cringe-worthy. Alternately just a name that bears a loose association with Punk and (or not) Mustang. If I like your suggestion and I adopt it I'll give you a nice discount on any Kinman product you fancy.

So let's hear your suggestions. CK
Oh, man. I guess I never thought that you'd actually read anything I wrote here and hope I haven't said anything too cruel about the names or anything, I'll try and hide behind knowing that I have said repeatedly that you make the best pickups of anyone and I'll continue to say that. Hopefully I've said nice things about the support as well, Joe has been very helpful to me at a couple of bone-headed times of mine so be sure to let him know.

Over to the names, you may not know this, but "tang" is older American 70's mustache slang for, no getting around it, "pussy". For instance, here's noted 70's mustache asshole Ted Nugent with his awful song "Wang Dang Sweet Poon Tang".

So my suggestion is why bother with the name of the guitar? We go to the site, we click on the link for "Mustang" or "Jazzmaster", so we know we are looking at those kinds of pickups.

You think of punk, you think of New York or London. You think of grunge, you think of Seattle. So if you want to conjure up that imagery, and why not, why not just call the pickups "London Punk" and "Seattle Grunge"? "Chicago Blues"?

An alternative would be to just describe the pickups. I started with you on the somewhat pornographic sounding "Thickmasters", and you use the terms "dark" and "syrupy" with those on the site, which I've used as well when describing them compared to the Surfmasters ("LA Surf?"), so why not just call them Dark Syrup Jazzmaster pickups? The name itself tells you what you are going to be getting.

Hope this is somewhat helpful, hope I haven't been too rude- I genuinely do think you make the best pickups and I've tried them all and yours will be the only ones I consider on my future guitars. Welcome to the show.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
DeathJag
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2297
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:44 am

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by DeathJag » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:34 am

I'd like names that indicate the character of the pickups. For example, jaguar - bright, medium, warm, and high, medium or low gain. I know that's "boring" but it's also informative. Then show a big graph that contains all the models, with resistance on one column and bright-to-warm on the other. That'd be an awesome graphic.

Naming them after a genre is weird to me because we've all never heard just the guitar and pickup - it's always a highly mastered product. A grunge jaguar pickup means almost nothing because it's distorted and mastered, and played through different amps than I have (I think!). Maybe it means hotly wound and warm? I don't know. And for me, there's the unneeded comparison to a successful artist or genre and the implication that I'm trying to emulate it. I prefer to make my own comparisons to my stuff. Maybe that's just me getting spectrum-ey haha!

After all of it, I'd say my biggest issue is the use of "tang."

User avatar
Surfysonic
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:22 pm
Location: Walkersville, MD
Contact:

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Surfysonic » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:18 am

Atilla the Hum wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:47 pm
G'day fellas, Chris Kinman here. I've become aware that some don't care for the names Punk-Tang and Grunge-Tank for my Mustang pickups. When I came up with those names I wanted to link the musical genre with the type of pickup and it seemed a no brainer, especially when I just couldn't think of anything else that satisfied the brief for naming protocol. After all it worked for my Jazzmaster models but I do admit that Punk-Tang sounded somewhat ... er ... cringeworthy!!! So here I am asking for suggestions from all you nice people who said otherwise nice things about my pickups as well as those who criticized the present names.

The brief is to link the musical genre with the type of pickup and not be cringe-worthy. Alternately just a name that bears a loose association with Punk and (or not) Mustang. If I like your suggestion and I adopt it I'll give you a nice discount on any Kinman product you fancy.

So let's hear your suggestions. CK
I have no dog in this fight as of yet but maybe a simple fix on the Mustang pickups' names would be Punk-Stang and Grunge-Stang? I like Punk'Stang and Grunge'Stang even better. Seems consistent to me, branding-wise. 8)
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...

User avatar
Telliot
Mods
Mods
Posts: 12201
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm
Location: CA

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Telliot » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:37 am

I spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out what the difference between Thick and Fat is. It feels a bit redundant and not very descriptive when compared to each other.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

User avatar
NICQ
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:49 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by NICQ » Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:39 pm

Telliot wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:37 am
I spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out what the difference between Thick and Fat is. It feels a bit redundant and not very descriptive when compared to each other.
So did I - wanted something "overwound" and higher output for a Jazzmaster (=Thickmaster) and then something brighter and twangier for another Jazzmaster ... went for the Surfmaster in the end but had a hard time distinguishing it from the Fatmaster which were described as lowest Output of all three and most "vintage" sounding.. I guess they probably are "warm" vintage then and not so bright? I associate vintage Jazzmaster with being very bright (like Novaks JM-V or Duncan's Antiquity or Fender's PV65)

I also bought a Surf Jag for the bridge because after reading the description I thought with "Surf" it'll probably be closest to a Jag sound which I think of being quite bright .. hope they are the brightest of the 3... Punk Jag are probably the Thickmasters of the Jag line.. not sure what the Mod Jag are then...


I know that it is hard to describe sound just with words - Dimarzio for instance has those diagrams on their website with EQ and Output which I really like because it helps me narrow down the choices by sorting humbuckers by most treble for example ... other vendors only show the DC resistance which is not helpful..

Maybe bright vs warm and high or low output would be a good info on each pickup?

I know this isn't helping in this case ( new names for mustang pickups) but it is somehow a bit confusing to find the info on the site which are the brightest or which are the loudest pickups ...

Anyways - the ones I have purchased sound outstanding and I'm very happy with them.
Will definately buy more :D

User avatar
NICQ
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:49 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by NICQ » Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:51 pm

Also the support has been outstanding - my parcel got stuck because there was no flight available to Austria for the standard Postal Service in the Philipines for weeks ... Joe was very helpful and quick to sort this out via FedEx. Top customer support :)

User avatar
Atilla the Hum
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:52 pm

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Atilla the Hum » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:50 pm

BoringPostcards I was pleased you got a laugh outta my moniker "Atilla The Hum", I wasn't sure than anyone, especially the young ones would catch on. Atilla, to me, is pretty much like mains hum and I've spent most of my working life coming up with hum cancelling solutions in one form or another, it would not be wrong to call it my big obsession. Hum is horrible and discordant ... unmusical. Read 'My Story' on my website for the full, but very much abbreviated tale My Story.

User avatar
Atilla the Hum
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:52 pm

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Atilla the Hum » Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:16 pm

Ozone7 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:21 am
I got my Jag back with 1M pots last night.

Much better balanced against other guitars now.

So I have:
Jag with Surf-Jag Neck and Texas Jalapeño Bridge 1M (Blues Jag set in a box)
Jazzmaster: Surfmasters 500K
SG: P90Hx (Neck only) 500K
Flying V: PAF 59LPS 500K
Strat: AVN62 / SCN Blues set 250K

The Jazzmaster and SG sound similar in the top end - chewy but sweet.
The Jaguar sounds closest to the Jazzmaster but with less bass and more HF, with a pronounced peak in the upper mids
The V on the neck is similar to the SG P90 with less definition
The Strat is the shrillest of them all, with what feels like a mid-range scoop

I'd guess, as Embenny says, that the 500K pots are why the Jazzmaster, SG and V are in a similar ballpark.
I could go back to 500K on the Jaguar to get it closer to these guitars, but I think I like the more top end now. Closer to a strat which works for me. I don't really think the 250K pots do them any favours on the Jaguar.

Only drag now is that the 1M pots roll the volume and tone off really sharply off the full setting, which the 250 pots didn't (and none of my other guitars do). So I'm slightly scratching my head as to why that should be as they're audio/log pots from Fender.
Sigh. Never finished.. oh, and series setting is broken now so taking back to the tech on Monday.

*On a Jag specific note, the bridge Texas Jalapeño, which was advised as a hotter match for the neck, still is quieter even with that pickup racked up and the neck PU screwed down*.
Ozone7 FYI I updated the Texas Jalapeno a few weeks ago to the v3 revision. Unlike the previous incarnation this one definitely sound louder now ... and I think it sounds better too, much more intense piano-mid-tones. Tell ya what, shoot me a message on the website and I'll give you a nice discount on the upgraded v3. I'll PM you a Coupon Code. CK

User avatar
Ozone7
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:01 am

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Ozone7 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:08 pm

Ozone7 FYI I updated the Texas Jalapeno a few weeks ago to the v3 revision. Unlike the previous incarnation this one definitely sound louder now ... and I think it sounds better too, much more intense piano-mid-tones. Tell ya what, shoot me a message on the website and I'll give you a nice discount on the upgraded v3. I'll PM you a Coupon Code. CK
Thanks Chris. I appreciate the gesture. I’m four Kinman pickups and three sets of pots in to my Jaguar build, and I’m still not happy yet, so that’s good info and a generous attitude. I’ll drop you a message.
NB: all my other Kinman guitars are killer, so it’s just the Jag.

User avatar
Atilla the Hum
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:52 pm

Re: Found a good deal on some Kinmans

Post by Atilla the Hum » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:18 am

Embenny wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:21 pm
johnnysomersett wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:06 pm
Wow, that sounds like quite the process - and justifies the seemingly exorbitant pricing. Thanks for that rundown
No problem. I feel a bit like a detective or historian when it comes to Kinman pickups. It's so hard getting straight information on them due his kinda kooky nature.

It was an ancient forum post by Chris Kinman himself where I read that bit about the metal rings and the P90. He had some sort of friend/client who kept harassing him about making JM and once he figured out the P90, he tried swapping alnico poles into the P90 design and realized it worked. He offers an alnico-pole P90 design that is basically the prototype of what became the Surfmaster JM model after a few tweaks.

All I need is a cork board and some red string.
johnnysomersett It's so hard getting straight information on them due his kinda kooky nature.

Who me, I have a kinda kooky nature??? ahahhahhha well that's kinda nice of you to say so but I assure I am (almost) the most normal person on the planet. If I sometimes come across as cagey it's because I have to be. Apart from my patented technologies there are a whole lotta proprietary secrets I don't want to divulge in public places; and I don't know who's on the other end of the question, could be someone in a competitors camp trying to glean my Know-How (which there is a mountain of). I mean I have spent a great deal of my life discovering these things thru long hours and hard work so why would I want to freely pass this information to a competitor who will use it to take sales from me? My business is struggling enough as it is.

Now I want to set the record straight about differences between my P-90 Hx and my Jazzmaster designs and the reason for my prices. Sorry to tell you this but there is very little in common between the two designs, in fact they are vastly different. Scroll to the bottom of the P-90 OVERVIEW page and you'll see two photos https://kinman.com/model-products.php?p ... #technical Count the number of parts if you can. There are 206 individual component parts, several of which are not found in any other pickup on this planet. This is because I'm the only crazy bastard stupid enough to go to such extraordinary lengths to make a pickup sound like it should. Even though my margin is very low I continue to do this just to fly the flag. The fact is my P-90 Hx are the bargain of the century considering what it costs to build these things. Even the most complicated noiseless P-90 has a mere 23 parts compared to my 206. It's not hard to imagine that it takes us 5 times longer to make one of ours. But I don’t charge 5 times the price. No, I take a dive and take comfort knowing my P-90 Hx outshines the competition by a country mile.

Because the others are Sidewinders, they are a flawed design. I wrote an illustrated Blog article about Sidewinders that details what the flaw is and it's impact on the sound of the pickups Sidewinders flawed design I wanted to make a lower priced P-90 and get a piece of the action that Fralin and Mojotone generate with their Soapbar Sidewinders. I worked long and hard on my Sidewinder and I did manage to improve it's sound but at the end of the day it was still a Sidewinder with the same flaws as the other brands and true to form I rejected it. I just couldn't bring myself to knowingly make a flawed design and ask money from my customers for the thing.

My Jazzmaster pickups are similar to but not exactly the same as my Gen-2 Strat pickups. The only thing in common with the P-90 Hx is the core of the string sensing coil but even then there are major differences (magnets v/s steel pins). Of course there is more to them than what I will disclose here and those things are the technicalities that produce the sesirable sonic attributes of my Jazzmaster models. The number of parts in my JM pickups is 28, non-noiseless JM pickups have just 10, big difference huh? But mine are not 3 times the price of non-noiseless brands. You don't need me to tell you that my Jazzmaster pickups also represent beyond excellent value for money ... especially when you look at the margins made on non-noiseless brands. The laugh all the way to the bank. Me, not so much.

Anyhow, I was so chuffed when I stumbled across this thread titled 'The Official Kinman pickups thread'. Why didn't someone tell me? I would have signed up far sooner had I known. I’m a busy man fully occupied and more with my pickup business but I’ll try to drop by now and again as see what’s going on. If you want to attract my attention about something here please send a message on my website and I’ll be only too happy to drop in. All the best to all of you here, and thanks a ton for your support, it's bloody great. CK

User avatar
Iffymiffy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:18 am

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Iffymiffy » Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:58 pm

How about using a play on the names of songs, albums or bands that you think encompass the tones of the pickups and what they are most suited to when designing them?

Because using grunge and punk as an example, those genres have a really wide scope of tones for people that are into the them.

like Nirvana 90s, NVMND 91s, Bleach 1989, KC Special

Just as some totally random examples

User avatar
Iffymiffy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:18 am

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Iffymiffy » Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:09 pm

A heads up for anyone that was on the fence about kinmans due to price, amazon currently has them on 45% discount, so we are talking less than USD190 for a set of Surfmasters!

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:54 pm

I am trying not to buy the P90s...
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
kamillebidan
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:00 pm

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by kamillebidan » Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:15 pm

Thank you for the heads up Iffy! I got the p90s finally!
Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:54 pm
I am trying not to buy the P90s...
You know you want to...

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: The official Kinman pickups thread

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:44 pm

kamillebidan wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:15 pm
Thank you for the heads up Iffy! I got the p90s finally!
Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:54 pm
I am trying not to buy the P90s...
You know you want to...
If they are still there tomorrow, I will. Payday, you know.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

Post Reply