I'd like to add a middle pickup to my Johnny Marr Jaguar to get some Strat quack. Advice needed.

[markpaterson]

I have a Johnny Marr Jaguar, and it's almost the perfect guitar for me, but I really would love add a middle pickup to obtain some Strat-style quack. Yes I know, I could just buy a strat, but why would I do that?

The Johnny Marr Bare Knuckle pickups are low vintage output and not RWRP (Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity). As I understand it, adding another one of these in the middle position will not achieve the quack. Apparently, the winding and polarity of the middle pickup needs to be opposite the winding and polarity of the bridge and neck.

I’ve read that that stock Fender Jaguar pickups are RWRP though, so I assume any vintage low output Jaguar pickup might do the trick?

Currently, the 4 way switch is stock and wired like this:

Position 1 - bridge pickup

Position 2 - bridge and neck pickups in parallel

Position 3 - neck pickup

Position 4 - neck and bridge pickups in series

I would like to replace this with a 6 way switch, which retains the original options but adds 2 more like this (in bold):

Position 1 - bridge pickup
Position 2 - bridge and middle pickups (AKA strat quack)

Position 3 - bridge and neck pickups in parallel

Position 4 - middle and neck pickups (AKA strat quack)

Position 5 - neck pickup
Position 6 - neck and bridge pickups in series

I realize that this option doesn't allow for the middle pickup on it's own, but I can live without that. In my case, the job of the middle pickup would only be to provide the quack.

As a bonus, it would be nice if the universal bright switch worked on the middle pickup too.

I would not be doing this myself. I'll find a local guitar tech because I assume the body needs routing, and I hate soldering too. But just curious is this configuration at least possible? Or do the stock wiring options prevent any potential issues with my plan? And most importantly, will this get me close to the strat quack sound? Thanks!

[marqueemoon]

Yes I know, I could just buy a strat, but why would I do that?

Because you could spend a good chunk of money doing something that will devalue your JM Jag and might still not give you the sound you want when you could buy a cheap Strat instead and be done with it.

[markpaterson]

Devaluing it doesn't matter to me, because I will never part with it.

I've had maybe half a dozen different strats over the years but I've just never bonded with them because I hate the strat bridge/tremolo. I prefer the offset way of doing things. Isn't that why we're here anyway?

[Norrin Radd]

Yes I know, I could just buy a strat, but why would I do that?

Because you could spend a good chunk of money doing something that will devalue your JM Jag and might still not give you the sound you want when you could buy a cheap Strat instead and be done with it.

I think I share this opinion. Have you tried an EQ pedal with both pick ups in the parallel position? I think you could probably get the Strat quack just by using an EQ there. And then you wouldn’t be doing any thing nonreversible to your Jag. I know you said you don’t care but if you can achieve the same thing with a pedal, for literally hundreds of dollars less, why not give it a try? You could always buy a new EQ pedal and return it if it doesn’t work, THEN bring it to a tech. Just throwing it out there as an idea. Also keep in mind that the scale length of a strat probably plays no insignificant part in helping make that quack tone.

[markpaterson]

That's a valid option. I'll look into that!

[thephza]

Have you looked into Freeway 10-position blade switches? With three pickups there are a bunch of wiring configurations you might be happy with.

[Bradley-Jazz]

You could look at a half out of phase wiring mod - I’ve done it on a couple of my teles. You need a five way super switch and then you can keep the four sounds you already have on your Jag, plus the HOoP setting that is (on my Tele at least) quite like a strat in between position. This explains it - https://www.premierguitar.com/amp/bill- ... 2651069114

There are various circuit diagrams floating around the web. “SHOoP” ones keep the series setting of the JM Jag (unlike the Bill Lawrence version). You’d need to work out where to put the Jag’s bright switches in that circuit.

Here is an example- https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8871/5-shoop

Assuming the super switch fits in the switch route, this would be a completely reversible and pretty cheap mod to try.

[markpaterson]

You could look at a half out of phase wiring mod - I’ve done it on a couple of my teles. You need a five way super switch and then you can keep the four sounds you already have on your Jag, plus the HOoP setting that is (on my Tele at least) quite like a strat in between position. This explains it - https://www.premierguitar.com/amp/bill- ... 2651069114

There are various circuit diagrams floating around the web. “SHOoP” ones keep the series setting of the JM Jag (unlike the Bill Lawrence version). You’d need to work out where to put the Jag’s bright switches in that circuit.

Here is an example- https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8871/5-shoop

Assuming the super switch fits in the switch route, this would be a completely reversible and pretty cheap mod to try.

Now this is interesting! Might be the best option yet and certainly the cheapest to ask a guitar tech to do. It's also so reversible that it's basically a "soft" mod. Very cool.

I assume a "five way super switch" is just a regular old strat 5 way switch? That's what the premier guitar article seems to say I think. Thanks for sharing!

[markpaterson]

Have you looked into Freeway 10-position blade switches? With three pickups there are a bunch of wiring configurations you might be happy with.

10 positions. Oh wow. I think my brain would melt trying to remember all those!

[timtam]

The Johnny Marr Bare Knuckle pickups are low vintage output and not RWRP (Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity). As I understand it, adding another one of these in the middle position will not achieve the quack. Apparently, the winding and polarity of the middle pickup needs to be opposite the winding and polarity of the bridge and neck.

I’ve read that that stock Fender Jaguar pickups are RWRP though, so I assume any vintage low output Jaguar pickup might do the trick?

Not exactly. There is no such thing as a "single" RWRP pickup. Pickups can only be RWRP in relation to another pickup. The two jaguar pickups are usually RWRP in relation to each other - one has north magnetic polarity and the other has south magnetic polarity (that is, the pole pieces attract when brought near to each other), and the hot and ground wires are flipped on one pickup so that the coils are effectively wound in opposite directions.

So to find a RWRP middle pickup (compared to the other two), you would first need to know the magnetic polarity of the Bare Knuckles. I don't recall that information being shared here. So your simplest option might be to use a compass to see which end of the needle your pickup tops attract (it will be the same for both). And then find a third pickup that attracts the opposite end of the needle. Then you just wire the new pickup so it's in phase with the other two (out of phase and quack are two different things). If you get lucky you'll be able to do that without adding a 3rd wire to the pickup to separate the claw and coil grounds (the Marr neck pickup already has this, because it's needed for series). BTW there's no real guarantee you'll actually get quack.

Since you won't be doing the job yourself, maybe take the above to your tech. If by chance they say "I have no idea what any of that means" find another tech. If they say "piece of cake", you should be good to go.

The less new wiring design your tech has to do, the less it will cost. The switching you have described could get expensive. The very simplest option would be to add the 3rd pickup in with a mini toggle switch, and leave everything else untouched.

FYI, this is the stock Marr schematic ...

[markpaterson]

Thanks timtam this is great info to consider. All the advice received so far is exactly why I posted this question.

I may end up going the SHOoP route mentioned above, as it seems the least invasive and least expensive, and the 'half out of phase' would guarantee a different sound option (even if it wasn't 100% what I was looking for).

Big thanks for posting the Marr schematic, I will include that in any emails I send out to guitar techs.

[Bradley-Jazz]

You could look at a half out of phase wiring mod - I’ve done it on a couple of my teles. You need a five way super switch and then you can keep the four sounds you already have on your Jag, plus the HOoP setting that is (on my Tele at least) quite like a strat in between position. This explains it - https://www.premierguitar.com/amp/bill- ... 2651069114

There are various circuit diagrams floating around the web. “SHOoP” ones keep the series setting of the JM Jag (unlike the Bill Lawrence version). You’d need to work out where to put the Jag’s bright switches in that circuit.

Here is an example- https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8871/5-shoop

Assuming the super switch fits in the switch route, this would be a completely reversible and pretty cheap mod to try.

Now this is interesting! Might be the best option yet and certainly the cheapest to ask a guitar tech to do. It's also so reversible that it's basically a "soft" mod. Very cool.

I assume a "five way super switch" is just a regular old strat 5 way switch? That's what the premier guitar article seems to say I think. Thanks for sharing!

No, the super switch is a special thing - it is multiple five ways in one - looks like two stuck side by side but has more terminals than that I think. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fender-0992251 ... th=1&psc=1

This is the circuit that I used on my tele with one of those:

You can get the half-out-of-phase with a regular five way (like the article), but I'm not sure that you can do a SHOoP (i.e. with series position) with one. Also, I'm not a fan of the order of the selections - personally, I want neck at one end and bridge at the other. This is with a regular five way:

[markpaterson]

No, the super switch is a special thing - it is multiple five ways in one - looks like two stuck side by side but has more terminals than that I think. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fender-0992251 ... th=1&psc=1

Ah I see. Good to know. I assume I could have them place the HOoP anywhere in the switch?

One option is to add it to the end, thereby keeping positions 1 to 4 as stock, and aiding muscle memory LOL…

Position 1 - bridge pickup

Position 2 - bridge and neck pickups in parallel

Position 3 - neck pickup

Position 4 - neck and bridge pickups in series
Position 5 - neck and bridge pickups in parallel
 half out of phase

Or grouping them more logically like this…

Position 1 - bridge pickup

Position 2 - bridge and neck pickups in parallel

Position 3 - bridge and neck pickups in parallel
 and half out of phase
Position 4 - bridge and neck pickups in series
Position 5 - neck pickup


Something for me to consider I guess.

[del]

Because you're seeking a particular set of tones, and want to achieve it by adding a new third pickup to a guitar not typically associated with that tone, the choice of the new middle pickup and the details of wiring/switching/controls will make enormous differences.

The characteristics of the "quack" you are seeking are tied in part to phase, wind-direction, magnet polarity, and series/parallel combinations between the middle and bridge (or middle and neck) pickups on a strat, along with the ability to control the tone of both the middle and neck pickups.

There's a lot of wood and electronics work afoot here. Choosing the right pickup is a big step - and you should probably talk face-to-face with the guitar technician you're using to clarify precisely what you want (e.g. Clapton quack or SRV quack or something else) before you try one out. And you may want to be prepared to try a different pickup if the first one doesn't quite achieve what you want. Another big step is to choose either complex super-strat wiring (all the phase, series/parallel, etc. combinations and permutations are available, but it might require more wood work on a Jaguar in addition to wiring) or to pick the options you think you want and install them in the MarrJag's available switching space. And a third option is how to arrange tone control: a single tone knob for all output, two controls like in a strat, or something else. And I'm sure theres more that's not coming to mind.

There really are a lot of variables - and it's been sort of fun to think about this puzzle - but getting precisely the tone you're looking for, especially if you don't actually like playing a stratocaster, might be a real journey of discovery for you and your guitar tech (and your guitar).

I hope this is helpful.

~del

[JSett]

Have you tried an EQ pedal with both pick ups in the parallel position? I think you could probably get the Strat quack just by using an EQ there. And then you wouldn’t be doing any thing nonreversible to your Jag.

I concurr. You'll get just as close with a carefully sculpted EQ pedal as you will irreversibly routing and stuffing an extra pickup in there....which still won't sound like a Strat, the physics of the guitar are against you there.

Or build a Strat in a 25.5" Jazzmaster body shape like many have done before.

Or, you know, just do what you want...it's only a guitar.