Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

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windmill
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Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by windmill » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:23 pm

First time painter here, just using spraycans.

Would using a white or silver undercoat coat of paint under a metallic finish brighten the metallic paint ?

Or won't it make any difference ?

Image

As shown in the photo I am intending to paint over the greenburst finish with a metallic green , not dissimiliar in shade to the green in the burst.

Got to thinking that the black of the burst may cause the new paint to be darker in those areas.

Then thought that, like Fender does with Candy Apple Red, would an undercoat of white or silver paint reduce or eliminate any possibility of the darkening occurring ?

Any opinions would be welcome.

Thanks

:)

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:18 am

the candy apple finishes typically have a translucent color coat over a silver base.

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by JSett » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:08 am

Lost In Autumn wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:18 am
the candy apple finishes typically have a translucent color coat over a silver base.
Some are gold and some are silver, depending on the year

A gold undercoat will give it a warmer tone to silver, so it's down to what you want out of the end result
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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by snarf » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:23 pm

hey windmill. I think of finishing as a layered cake process. You're creating layer upon layer of material and hopefully by the end of it you have something really great when rubbed out/sanded and polished.

Concerning under coats, I always do a white undercoat then put on the metallic paint. Reason being is because it takes less metallic paint to get full coverage, such as covering all the wood grain pattern. In your case, you will need a lot of basecoat to cover up that original finish.

So why not just use a lot of basecoat? mostly its because the metallic paint has a tendency to get really heavy and then run because of all the metallic particles. I also think using a thinner basecoat gives a great metallic effect because of the space between the metallic pearls.

Vintage candy apple red finishes actually had a white-ish base coat so the gold or silver coat was really consistent. Consistent metallic coat is a must-have when shooting the transparent "candy" red shell on top of it. Once the candy is on top, you can actually see the heavy and thin spots in the metallic coat very obviously.

Consistency is key, so paint like a robot.

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by Futuron » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:08 am

If you're using metallic paint from a spraycan (like those Duplicolor touch-up cans) it makes no real difference what the undercoat is. If you spray just a few even coats there'll be nothing else visible. It's a bit different from spraying translucent candy with a gun.

What product are you using?

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by windmill » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:09 am

Thanks for the replies.

Using Duplicolour.

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by tammyw » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:46 am

I've never used Duplicolour, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had pretty opaque coverage. The best thing is to make some test panels and see how it turns out.

Years ago I used some Auto Air colors, and they can be applied very thin. Black undercoat looked the best for making the metallic pop and having a deep, bold color. While the white undercoat did make the color a bit lighter, it was slightly dull and hazy because it's reflecting more diffuse white light instead of just the colored and metallic bits. Silver undercoat could be used for a neat effect, but the trouble was it needed to be completely smooth or else the color layer metallics would settle in and accentuate any imperfections in the undercoat (in my case that meant using an intercoat clear and leveling it).

Also you could try a plain non-metallic green undercoat, it might give you the color you want with the least total build up. The plain opaque paint should have the best cover-up ability, and it would only need the lightest layers of metallic since the color is already there.

But don't take my advice without testing it out for yourself.
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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:46 am

windmill wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:09 am
Thanks for the replies.

Using Duplicolour.
I used a duplicator metallic red as a base coat for a red sparkle finish I did a few months ago. It took several coats, as the finish wasn’t fully opaque

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by ludobag1 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:02 am

don't know if the ground color change the color of metalics paint but the ground need to be unified, that s why we use primer ,it made the thickness of paint less necessary to have a good and uniform coverage for metalic or not
all the metalic i have done where on grey primer ,need to put some fine coat to hidden it ,an also need to made mist at last coat to made the metalic not stay flat and reflect at different angle ,the varnish you put on need also few mist coat to not flat them after ( the varnish tend to dilute the metalic if they are similar or near ,example one k with 2k on the metalliccan move if you charge with the varnish ,motip metallic can1K and 2k uréthane have made this ,1k all it could be worst )

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by windmill » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:47 pm

Thanks for the responses.

I made on a start on this and have since learned several things.

Firstly is that I didnt know what type of paints were compatible. :)

So... (big pictures)
Image

On the left is 2 coats of the metallic colour, on the right is the silver metalflake with a coat of the metallic green sprayed about an hour later.

Image

Next attempt was, in the centre, silver undercoat with metallic green sprayed 2 days later, a minor amount of beading occurred. On the right end is the silver undercoat and 2 days later sanded with 800 grit and sprayed with metallic green.

So far so good .....

Image

Sanded body

Image

Silver metalflake sprayed, with some uneven patches, but that would be covered by the metallic greentop coat.

Image

Two days later, after lightly sanding the silver coat, spraying the metallic green

......

and then

about an hour later

Image

Never been a fan of relicing or "distressed" finishes but it is starting to grow on me :)

The lesson is incompatible types of paint but also a thorough sanding of the silver coat, to rough up the surface and give the top coat something to stick too.

Still thinking of the next step.

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by Futuron » Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 am

:o That looks extremely wet!

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 am

Next step: sand it back to the base coat, reapply using the same brand and type of finish.

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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:55 am

i kinda love how that looks
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Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?

Post by andy_tchp » Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:21 am

Damn that’s rough :squint:
Lost In Autumn wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 am
Next step: sand it back to the base coat, reapply using the same brand and type of finish.
Yep.
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