Locking vs Non-locking tuners

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alexpigment
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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by alexpigment » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:52 pm

Yeah, I'm sure you'd get a decent amount of that on the TDPRI as well. For what it's worth, I *hate* non-locking modern tuners with a passion. There are tricks to keep the strings in place, but they all seem like a boyscout knot tying trick, and I just sit there fighting the G, B, and E strings for a good 10 minutes. Put the string in there, hope it catches on the original kink you made, tune, it slips out, retry. Then you have to chop off the ends of the strings, which has a non-trivial chance that the string will still slip out after doing this and force you to start all over. Yes, this is my version of guitar hell ;)

Fortunately, I'm glad to see Fender now has a drop-in replacement with the ClassicGear tuners:

https://www.fender.com/en-US/parts/elec ... 02100.html

Have not had the chance to use them, but will do so if I end up with a modern style Fender again.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:02 pm

Staggered tuners I like a lot. Locking I’m kind of indifferent about.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by Deed_Poll » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:16 pm

Tuners are one of those few and blessed components where I have a benchmark of "good enough", and don't feel a need to extrapolate beyond that unless I need something specific.

My benchmark is the Gotoh Kluson non-locking tuner. They're lightweight, reliable, and consistently don't creak or rattle (unlike the Kluson brand type which are very inconsistent in my experience).

I think 99% of the time people blame their tuners for a guitar having tuning issues, it is usually something else. Most likely nut slots, next most likely is bridge saddles or pickup height (an unbalanced / loud G string can make the whole guitar sound out of tune)... Sometimes what they are complaining about is intonation related or technique-related (pressing certain frets too hard, exacerbated by excessively high or low action). Sometimes people pick the strings much more gently when they tune up the guitar than when they are playing the guitar, for instance. Or people don't realise that muting strings sharpens them slightly.

With experience and familiarity, we all learn how to get the most out of our own technique, and develop our own workarounds to compensate our tuning to our ear for the way we play.

I shudder to think how much of the aftermarket tuner industry is driven by "my guitar keeps going out of tune! It must be the tuners!". Even tuners that feel loose or tight, rattle, or have other issues that make them unpleasant to use and which I would absolutely switch out, are usually perfectly capable of holding tune if the right technique is used to wind them and tune them. Grovers are a good example of this - I really hate using them, they forever just seem to feel a millimetre away from breaking a string and they're always jamming up! But I've never had real tuning issues with them.

I've never felt a need to use a locking tuner, but then I only really consider them a necessary / meaningful "improvement" if one is sporting an extremely low friction nut. People spend hundreds on replacement locking tuners, and then use them with string trees!

If you're not imparting enough force to move the friction / gearing of the tuner you have through whammy usage or extreme string bending, I doubt there is even a case for them, honestly. I could be wrong. I just think a massive element is that if an inexperienced player is having tuner issues of any sort, they are naturally going to jump to the tuners being the issue.
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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by HarlowTheFish » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:22 pm

I will say that if you've tried locking tuners that are self-locking (allegedly) or have the locking screw on top, those are god-awful and are by far worse than pretty much anything else because they're slow to lock/unlock and in many cases have crummy locking systems that don't hold strings properly or are hard to operate without tools.

The ones with knobs on the back, even if they might not look vintage-correct, are as easy as pulling the string through the hole and turning it by hand. I don't mind split-post vintage tuners, though they're not my preference personally, but if I can put in lockers with a thumbwheel on the back (Gotoh makes great Kluson-footprint replacements, though I'm partial to Hipshot if I don't have to drill too much) then I will. My Mustang used to take something like 10, 15 minutes to string up with the split-posts, but with the Gotoh thumbwheel lockers it's more like 5 to 7.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by Lost In Autumn » Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:16 am

I have locking tuners on about 70% of my guitars and most of my builds have them, i mainly use wilkinson EZ Lock tuners that don'e have a mechanical lock mechanism, but instead rely on an additional hole in the post. I only used them on my builds because they're inexpensive and reliable and I had the on an American Standard Stratocaster in the late 80's-90's and have a nostalgic fondness for them. I probably won't use them on future builds. They're definitely no substitute for a well cut nut.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by mackerelmint » Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:27 am

There was a time when I was convinced that locking tuners were a necessity.

There was a time when I was convinced (through no experience of my own) that split post tuners were like dandruff from the devil's balls and there was no place for them in this world.

Now I'm perfectly content using cheap squier split post kluson tuners on basically anything and everything simply because I learned how to use them and that it wasn't hard, and that they do just as good a job for me as anything else, even if only because I've got a light touch. Not with the wang bar, though. What was the question?

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by epizootics » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:52 pm

Deed_Poll wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:16 pm
I shudder to think how much of the aftermarket tuner industry is driven by "my guitar keeps going out of tune! It must be the tuners!". Even tuners that feel loose or tight, rattle, or have other issues that make them unpleasant to use and which I would absolutely switch out, are usually perfectly capable of holding tune if the right technique is used to wind them and tune them. Grovers are a good example of this - I really hate using them, they forever just seem to feel a millimetre away from breaking a string and they're always jamming up! But I've never had real tuning issues with them.

I've never felt a need to use a locking tuner, but then I only really consider them a necessary / meaningful "improvement" if one is sporting an extremely low friction nut. People spend hundreds on replacement locking tuners, and then use them with string trees!

Amen to that! Sometimes a perverse part of my brain wonders exactly how many guitars per guitarist exist out the world at a given moment. Then how many aftermarket parts per guitar sit in warehouses and stores (and in our drawers). I am glad I don't know the exact figures.


Only one of my guitars is equipped with locking tuners. It has a Floyd Rose bridge and no locking nut. Being a heavy-handed trem user, it makes sense to me. to have them there. They are the Gotoh vintage style, top-locking types, and while I see why some people complain about them, they really aren't that bad. The locking mechanism works perfectly well - you simply tune up until the string is locked into place. You do need a penny to unscrew them, though. The trick is to unscrew the locking part just enough so you can slide the string in, so you don't have to turn the button a million times to lock the string in. I use 12-54 strings on this one, which might help.

In any case, the Floyd unit ensures that I am screwed if I ever have to restring on stage. The tuners would be the least of my concerns then. But the funny thing is that this particular guitar seems to be immune to string breakage, no matter how much abuse the tremolo gets. I actually have to change my strings because they're old, which hadn't happened to me in years :)

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:44 am

epizootics wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:52 pm
But the funny thing is that this particular guitar seems to be immune to string breakage, no matter how much abuse the tremolo gets. I actually have to change my strings because they're old, which hadn't happened to me in years :)
My Ibby Prestige with their Edge trem (also Gotoh-made, and IIRC what they based their own Floyd design on) got blocked in the back and used as my guitar for tones that needed to sound like they were played with a sledgehammer because A) it would never go out of tune, and B) I swear you'd have more luck snapping the (5-piece, carbon-reinforced) neck than snapping a string on it by playing.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by adamrobertt » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:33 am

mackerelmint wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:27 am
There was a time when I was convinced (through no experience of my own) that split post tuners were like dandruff from the devil's balls and there was no place for them in this world.
I also felt this way when I was a teenager and I'm not sure where I got it from. Maybe it's because they were the "old" style and "old" things are bad? I'm not sure. But once I got older and actually got some experience with various types of tuners, I realized that the split post ones are actually a much better design. I'm not sure why anyone uses through-post tuners at this point, tbh, aside from out of tradition.

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by sal paradise » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:24 am

I’ve been playing for over 25 years now & I don’t think I know what a locking tuner is. Well apart from a Floyd rose.

I prefer vintage tuners because they have a cooler silhouette. I can change a string faster on stage with the through-post ones. Never noticed a difference other than looks & changing strings. Maybe I should try some locking tuners to see if they make the latter easier.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by mackerelmint » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:39 pm

adamrobertt wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:33 am
mackerelmint wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:27 am
There was a time when I was convinced (through no experience of my own) that split post tuners were like dandruff from the devil's balls and there was no place for them in this world.
I also felt this way when I was a teenager and I'm not sure where I got it from. Maybe it's because they were the "old" style and "old" things are bad? I'm not sure. But once I got older and actually got some experience with various types of tuners, I realized that the split post ones are actually a much better design. I'm not sure why anyone uses through-post tuners at this point, tbh, aside from out of tradition.
Yeah, exactly. Trim string, tuck it in, tune it up. Or just keep trying in vain to keep the non-wound strings from slipping out until you finally get it and 1 time out of 3 you break the high E trying to tune it... 3 times out of 4 if you're using cheap strings. I sure would prefer locking tuners to that bizniz, and I'll use them in anything where cheap squier split post klusons don't fit the bill.

Some folks don't seem to have any trouble with regular through-post tuners, though. Must be nice.
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Re: Locking vs Non-locking tuners

Post by JVG » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:41 pm

Big fan of vintage split-post style:
* Easy to change strings
* no spiky bits
* Look damn cool.
* Hold tune very well
* cheap

I’m not hating on locking tuners, i just don’t need them

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