Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

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Unicorn Warrior
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Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Thu May 13, 2021 7:42 pm

We all know that the Mascis JMs have the p-90 under the hood of a JM cover, but can the reverse also happen...is there enough room?

I just kinda want to see what an SG with Jazzmaster pups sound like.

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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by smjenkins » Thu May 13, 2021 8:28 pm

I think Curtis Novak's Narrow Range P-90 is the closest thing I've seen. I've got one in my Jazzmaster Jr. It's very Fender-y. It might be a bit less mellow than a JM pickup, but it's in the direction. I bet you could even ask Curtis to make it more Jazzmaster-like for you.

https://www.curtisnovak.com/shop/p-90-narrow-range/

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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Thu May 13, 2021 9:25 pm

smjenkins wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 8:28 pm
I think Curtis Novak's Narrow Range P-90 is the closest thing I've seen. I've got one in my Jazzmaster Jr. It's very Fender-y. It might be a bit less mellow than a JM pickup, but it's in the direction. I bet you could even ask Curtis to make it more Jazzmaster-like for you.

https://www.curtisnovak.com/shop/p-90-narrow-range/

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Very cool guitar. Is that a set neck?

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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Embenny » Thu May 13, 2021 9:46 pm

Alnico-polepiece P90s have existed since the P90's inception. The first was called the 480, which had square "staple" alnico polepieces instead of steel screws and bar magnets. It was used in the neck position of early Les Pauls, with a P90 in the bridge position.

Nearly every pickup winder offers a version of the concept today. They either call them alnico-poled P90s, staples, or some other marketing-based name. Bootstrap calls theirs the Squeaky Clean and Squeaky Mean. Lollar's is the Alnico Pole Soapbar. Duncan calls theirs a Staple. Kinman makes the 580. Creamery's is the Sonic Six.

P90 bobbins are dimensionally different from Jazzmaster pickups, since they're narrower and deeper, but when you substitute alnico polepieces into one, you get a very Jazzmaster-ish pickup, just like how a JM pickup with steel screws and bar magnets sounds more like a P90, but the differences in coil shape mean that they still sound different no matter how you play with number of turns, wire gauge, and magnet strength.

The Novak Narrow Range pickup is a little different, since it has a steel plate on the bottom, which changes the magnetic field and increases inductance. It's functionally more like a P-90-shaped Telecaster bridge pickup, whereas most alnico-poled P90s use plain fiber bobbins and behave more like smaller Jazzmaster or larger Strat pickups, depending how you want to look at them. The adjustable poles are functionally closer to an original 480 than most modern pickups with fixed poles - the 480 had an "elevator" mechanism with a small height adjustment screw next to each solid alnico pole, which is complicated and expensive to recreate, so reissues and reinterpretations tend to skip it. A threaded rod magnet like the Novak is the easiest way to accomplish the same thing these days, but I don't see other winders going that way, other than Creamery's "sonic six."
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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 am

I've got Lindy Fralin Alnico Pole P90s in a couple guitars, which is about as close as you can get. They are a bit fuller sounding, like a cross between a P90 and a Jazzmaster. I don't think it's physically possible to stuff a JM pickup in a P90 cover, the bobbins are too wide.

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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by jvin248 » Sat May 15, 2021 4:11 am

.

Direct stuffing of a classic Jazzmaster into a P90 cover won't work, they are different physical sizes.

If you wound the Jazzmaster bobbin taller and narrower and trimmed the fiber boards you could make them fit but then the tone will be something between a JM and a Strat... a lot like the MIJ JM pickups.

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Depending on how you wind the bobbin ... you can range the tone completely from JM to Strat:

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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat May 15, 2021 6:28 am

mbene085 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 9:46 pm


Nearly every pickup winder offers a version of the concept today. They either call them alnico-poled P90s, staples, or some other marketing-based name. Bootstrap calls theirs the Squeaky Clean and Squeaky Mean. Lollar's is the Alnico Pole Soapbar. Duncan calls theirs a Staple. Kinman makes the 580. Creamery's is the Sonic Six.

P90 bobbins are dimensionally different from Jazzmaster pickups, since they're narrower and deeper, but when you substitute alnico polepieces into one, you get a very Jazzmaster-ish pickup, just like how a JM pickup with steel screws and bar magnets sounds more like a P90, but the differences in coil shape mean that they still sound different no matter how you play with number of turns, wire gauge, and magnet strength.
I guess I could have some expertise with this since I do own a set of the Kinman 580s as well as the Fralin noiseless P90s with Alnico rods.

In both cases- and with Mike's kind advice- I ended up heading that way since my concern was noiseless pickups in a P90 form factor that still had as much high end as I like to have. P90s are pickups with a wide variety to them, to me, there's no singular P90 "sound" since one can wind them to where they are thick, powerful and dark like a more edgy PAF (basically what Gibson makes these days), or you can get them to where they are chiming and clear (like some nice Joe Bardens I used to have).

Now, no one here is asking about noiseless versions, regardless I'll say that I feel I got what I was looking for especially with the Kinmans. The Kinmans are dog ear pickups and the only way to adjust the height of these is by spacers and shims, very crude, for instance I just decided to remove two of the shims and lower the bridge pickup to where it is exactly even with the neck pickup and that was a mistake so I'll have to take the strings off and do it all over again. When I had it there I was feeling like I had a very good high end sound with the bridge pickup mainly adding treble.

So I think I got what I was looking for, and I'll second the recommendation for Alnico rod "staple" type pickups being about as close as one is going to get to the Jazzmaster pickup sound. As mentioned, the P90 is simply sized differently and the Jazzmaster pickup bobbin allows for the wind that gives the Jazzmaster its sound. No way to make the form factor of the P90 be the same.

But it will still be much more Fender than a classic P90.

If it was me, and I didn't care about pickups being noiseless, I would get these pickups.
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Re: Jazzmaster Pickup in p-90 Casing possible?

Post by Sweetfinger » Tue May 18, 2021 4:02 am

Gibson makes or made a P-90 soapbar with Alnico rod polepieces, P-90ST and P-90SR. I forget what models they came in, (like a Melody Maker and the 2015 les Paul Special, is what I found in 20 seconds.....)
If you do some looking you can find a set.
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