JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

[Speedo]

I did some progress this week and get new parts for my project
...

Hi Speedo, if you wouldn't mind starting your own build thread rather than hijacking this one I think that would be better. If you need help moving your posts I can assist on my end.

Hi, OK. I'm sorry if I hurted anyone.
I will start a thread tomorrow
I posted and talk here only coz I would never start my project without them... That's all.

[Telliot]

I did some progress this week and get new parts for my project
...

Hi Speedo, if you wouldn't mind starting your own build thread rather than hijacking this one I think that would be better. If you need help moving your posts I can assist on my end.

Hi, OK. I'm sorry if I hurted anyone.
I will start a thread tomorrow
I posted and talk here only coz I would never start my project without them... That's all.

No worries, I think this will make the threads less confusing for everyone.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Speedo]

Hi Speedo, if you wouldn't mind starting your own build thread rather than hijacking this one I think that would be better. If you need help moving your posts I can assist on my end.

Hi, OK. I'm sorry if I hurted anyone.
I will start a thread tomorrow
I posted and talk here only coz I would never start my project without them... That's all.

No worries, I think this will make the threads less confusing for everyone.

Thank you for your understanding.

Hi, i started here : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=123967
Have a nice day.

[Alex!]

So um I’m making a jag-stang out of my squier 2018 bullet mustang (parts wise)

[inkeye]

I've been going through this thread but I think I missed what the specs were for the production Jag-stang neck. I haven't owned a Jag-stang but I do have a version of the Jag-stang Done Right. I'm hoping to replace the neck I used at some point with something more accurate.

Also, as a side note: Musikraft can make a Jaguar neck with a small Strat headstock as an option. I'm not sure what profile and radius specs would be the closest to the original Jenner/Cobain Jaguar D&B neck.

[Amon 7.L]

I've been going through this thread but I think I missed what the specs were for the production Jag-stang neck. I haven't owned a Jag-stang but I do have a version of the Jag-stang Done Right. I'm hoping to replace the neck I used at some point with something more accurate.

Also, as a side note: Musikraft can make a Jaguar neck with a small Strat headstock as an option. I'm not sure what profile and radius specs would be the closest to the original Jenner/Cobain Jaguar D&B neck.

Check these pages:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112241&start=465#p1671425
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112241&start=480#p1671616

[inkeye]

Many thanks!

I've been going through this thread but I think I missed what the specs were for the production Jag-stang neck. I haven't owned a Jag-stang but I do have a version of the Jag-stang Done Right. I'm hoping to replace the neck I used at some point with something more accurate.

Also, as a side note: Musikraft can make a Jaguar neck with a small Strat headstock as an option. I'm not sure what profile and radius specs would be the closest to the original Jenner/Cobain Jaguar D&B neck.

Check these pages:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112241&start=465#p1671425
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112241&start=480#p1671616

[GilmourD]

Due to the fact that the goal was to sort out the aqua/sonic blue colour variance, in regards to those spec sheets I’ve furtherly asked:

“I’d like to ask you one last question if you don’t mind. It’s just out of curiosity.
I noticed that on the specs of the JAG-STANG, the color reference for the fiesta red and sonic blue are different. Are they different shades?
I tried to look’em up in your color chart but it only goes up to number 99.

1995 JAG-STANG has these:
(540) Fiesta Red,
(572) Sonic Blue

2003 JAG-STANG has these:
(340) Fiesta Red,
(372) Sonic Blue.

Can I kindly ask you some insight on those numbers? Does it indicates different batches of paint to separate the first run from the Reissue?
Is there a hex code you can direct me to tell them apart?”

I'm not sure if this has been referenced elsewhere in the thread since there's a lot in here, but the digit before the color code indicates whether a case is included and if it's a hardshell case or gig bag. "3" indicates a gig bag, "5" indicates no case at all, and "7" indicates a hardshell case.

As far as the change in color... Just look at all the different shades Fender calls Lake Placid Blue using the same color code.

[AcrylicSuperman]

I've been going through this thread but I think I missed what the specs were for the production Jag-stang neck. I haven't owned a Jag-stang but I do have a version of the Jag-stang Done Right. I'm hoping to replace the neck I used at some point with something more accurate.

Also, as a side note: Musikraft can make a Jaguar neck with a small Strat headstock as an option. I'm not sure what profile and radius specs would be the closest to the original Jenner/Cobain Jaguar D&B neck.

Well, the Jenner/Cobain Jaguar is an interesting connundrum. I wasn't initially going to discuss this openly but I feel like I need to.

In very recent history, I joined a Nirvana gear group on Facebook. Someone asked about the Jaguar neck and immediately, people gave the wrong information. I gave the information that I was given in the neck. Immediately, a keyboard warrior attacked me and asked me to prove it. I couldn't offer proof because I had a one on one conversation with the individual that worked on that neck for Martin Jenner. So I offered the one thing I could offer: the name of said individual. The keyboard warrior made a claim that a member and a mod of that group, John Pickford, made an exact replica of that neck. I asked for pics and information reguarding the neck to prove my allegations wrong and John blocked me instead.

I'm not making this post to shit talk John or that group or anything like that. We are all passionate about gear, whether it is Kurt's, someone else's or our own. But it reminded me of why I wanted to start this project to begin with. When this thread began, we both realized that there was roughly 30 years of BS, legends and myths surrounding this guitar and more so than that surrounding his other guitars. Everyone can pretend to be an expert. I'm not going to claim to be an expert. Our opinions and thoughts have changed many times on this instrument based on new and updated information. That's typically how people grow. The thing is, it is astonishing how often people will take an internet "authority" for their word and their "wisdom" and completely disregard someone like the builder of said neck, or Larry Brooks who built the Jagstangs. People to this day still claim stupid things like "Kurt hated the Jagstang because it had no contours" and yet, they cling on to the fact that a Telecaster became his favorite instument before his death. To me, it's ridiculous. I'm not an internet authority. I want to make clear that if I could find the information that I found, anyone here could with enough patience.

I know that I tagged you in this response, and I don't want you to feel like this rant is a personal attack. It's not at all directed at you. It's not directed at anyone, I just want anyone who reads this to understanf the purpose while answering your question. Early on in this thread, I said I wouldn't talk about this neck. I guess I've sort of hit a point that I don't care any more, if that makes sense. I've kind of grown tired of the John's of the community. Fans like that are toxic as hell.

I'm going to openly admit, I gave up on Kurt's Jaguar the moment it became irrelevant to our research. So what I can tell you about the Jaguar is that it appears to have been a prototype of some degree. An interesting feature is that the small switch plate only had a place for two switches rather than the typical 3. In terms of the neck, it initially had a large headstock and a bound and block neck. As it was relayed to me, the neck received some serious damage on tour. As far as I can tell, it originally had a Fender neck on it, as it even has pencil markings and still does. The maple was essentially salvaged but I am under the impression that the headstock was reshaped. The fretboard was replaced with the bound and dot board we all know today. The neck profile was reshaped to a thinner profile since Martin prefered skinny necks. The information that I personally was relayed was that the fretboard was a sort of compound radius. 12-14". Very, very subtle. But Martin seemed to believe it made all the difference in the world and if you believe it and it makes you play better, you play better. Musikraft will do that radius for you if you ask for it for an upcharge. Just pick a thin profile, your fret preferences and go with the flow. But if you use a Tom, you likely want it radiused for 16". I have no idea what Kurt did to the Jaguar, nor his techs aside from the obvious JB swap. I don't know if the radius stayed that way or anything else. But to the best of my kmowledge, that's how the guitar was under Martin Jenner pre 1991.

But at this point, you don't have to take my word for it. You also don't have to take the word of the John's of the comminty. The individual that worked on the neck was a man named Gordon Wells who works at Knight Guitars. Martin Jenner often had instruments made by them because he was a lefty and it was easier for him to have a lefty built than to obtain a lefty in the UK back then.

My point is this: the sources are out there. You don't have to rely on someone on the internet, and that includes me. So if anyone wants to hear details direct from the source, you now know where to go. I'm more than happy to be corrected or proved otherwise. I've never not been open to that but it surprises me how many people are. I've said it before, but I know that this thread is never going to change every fans mind about things. Not after 30 years. All I can do is search for the truth. To the best of my ability and knowledge, that's all I've offered in this thread. That's all that I will continue to offer in this thread. I can't tell you how many people tell me how awesome this thread is and when I hear that, I pass it to Amon because I couldn't have done any of this without him.

I do want to give a personal shout out to Sandy Ravage for being cool as hell though. For the record, I've seen a lot of useful information on the Nirvana Guitars and Gear group and I'm not bitter in the slightest about John banning me from the group. As I told the keyboard warrior before I was banned, I agree to disagree. I'll take the word of the individual at the source before I blindly take the word from a random individual. And I'm not going to turn this thread into a massive shit storm from anyone in that community. Some of you are very much part of that group and I'm happy you have a home there as well. I have nothing against any of you, including John. At the end of the day, the group may be a little too toxic for my tastes and I clearly don't need to be part of it.

But for now on, the Jagstang has my full focus unless other gear of Kurt's becomes relevant to our investigation. I won't be focusing on his other mustangs, his jaguars, stratocasters or any other guitars in this thread.

As long winded as this has been, I hope that you recieved the answers you were looking for. Much love to everyone.

-AS

[AcrylicSuperman]

I'd like to add that I was asked an interesting question in regard to Pickford Guards about if it is the same person. I'm not genuinely sure, I've never looked into it. The product isn't something that I am personally interested in anyway. But if it is, that shouldn't matter. Don't let my experience turn you off of his business. He is a dedicated fan just like you, just like me. The purpose of my post was not to have that effect on him. My point was we are all passionate to a fault. We have all taken the torch of legends and myths and run with it. I can't cast the first stone either. I can't tell you how many times Amon and I have disagreed on things in the past until the one thing comes along and sways us to the other side of the argument. I'd be a hypocrite if I said I was innocent of that too.

In no way do I want my experience to turn you away from that group, nor do I want it to effect his business in any way. We are all fans. We should support each other.

I wasn't trying to shit all over him. I just wanted to make a point about how easy it is for us to get wrspped up in it so deep that we can't look past our own preconceptions that may or may not be based in fact. Every single one of us have done it at some point.

I won't draw any more attention to the subject, but don't heckle or harass or boycott his business. He may be a terrible moderator but it was within his right to terminate me if he wished.

Thank you for your understanding.

[GilmourD]

Ever run into a guy named Daniel Dean Sullivan on the Facebook groups that talks some of that garbage you mention about the Jag-Stang?

[FenderBob]

AcrylicSuperman, thank you for posting the information you do have a on the Cobain Jaguar Neck. Very interesting stuff. It would make sense to me that Justin Norvell (of Fender) would have been fooled into thinking the neck was all original based on the original maple markings being still in tact.

[FenderBob]

Also, as a side note: Musikraft can make a Jaguar neck with a small Strat headstock as an option. I'm not sure what profile and radius specs would be the closest to the original Jenner/Cobain Jaguar D&B neck.

Good to know! Note: if you are striving for accuracy, it isn't as easy as ordering a strat headstock. Since the headstock shape was cut down from an original CBS jaguar headstock, the end results lies between a CBS Jaguar and small Strat shape. I was working on a headstock template for a while but haven't finished it quite yet.

[AcrylicSuperman]

Ever run into a guy named Daniel Dean Sullivan on the Facebook groups that talks some of that garbage you mention about the Jag-Stang?

I haven't but I'm not surprised they are around. Since this thread, I still see people every day spewing the same old information. But you lnow what else I see? People who have read this thread combating that misinformation. Honestly, it gives me hope.

AcrylicSuperman, thank you for posting the information you do have a on the Cobain Jaguar Neck. Very interesting stuff. It would make sense to me that Justin Norvell (of Fender) would have been fooled into thinking the neck was all original based on the original maple markings being still in tact.

I may even have the thickness around here somewhere, but it's buried under a mountain of research. I gave them to Amon years ago. If he feels like sharing, I'll let him. But yeah, I agree. I can absolutely see why Norvell thought it was a Fender neck because, well, technically it is. And it's not out of the realm of possibility for an experience luthier to replicate Fender style binding or anything else. People do it all the time.

Currently, between Jagstang research, I've been doing some treasure hunting so right now, my notes are all scattered to the wind. But hopefully pretty soon, we will have an update for this thread. Might be a week, might be the following months. Can't give a time frame, but what I will tease for you all is that I got access to the competition mustang. So stay tuned.

[Geetarfreek82]

I love this thread, it's one of the reasons I signed up here! I built a Jag-stang prototype replica using a MIM Jag-stang body with a Warmoth neck. Kudos to everyone involved for putting this all together.