JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
Post Reply
User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:27 pm

That's a lot of great information there! Thanks!

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:06 pm

Knatti wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:27 am

We have two non Gotoh ABR-1 style bridges on Skystang II & III that could be Gibsons and two Gibson Nashville Tune-O-Matic / Schaller GTM bridges on Oranj-Stang and Skystang I. If the quote is true, than there COULD be a 1990 Gotoh GE103B-T on the Compstang, but I´m 100% not sure with the footage I have.

Therefore it´s VERY likely that there is no GOTOH ABR-1 Tuneomatic bridge on Blue also. Blues Tune-O-Matic is angled and has thumbwheel height adjustment screws with small posts. Gotoh bridges back then had not to be angled, because they already had the Nashville size of 14 mm.
Going through my notes, I did find a detail that might actually back up this theory. There may have been some Gibson parts laying around in that time frame. The Jagstang is believed to have been recieved around the same time as Skystangs 2 and 3. I don't know about hardware, but I do know that the pickups for the mustangs were bought at American Musical Supply and if any hardware was purchased, it was likely purchased there at that time.

Having said that, John Duncan did discuss memories of Kurt receiving it. It was pretty clear that Kurt was going to have a tuneomatic installed on it immediately, but Kurt did talk to John about potentially installing a Gibson stop bar tailpiece on it as well, but they ultimately didn't go this route because Kurt changed his mind and decided to flip and lock the mustang trem instead.

Big problem with this time frame is that there are 3 techs working on things. Earnie is hit and miss, John was pretty solid with info right until Jim Vincent enters the picture and Jim has been impossible to find. Having said that, Jim has sold of his tech notes long ago, but the one piece of info I saw regarding him talking about the jagstang proved to be false, so I'm not sure how reliable he would be any way.

But I also agree on that neck. I believe the prototypes for Kurt were competition necks. Whatever the production model necks are, they're something else. I know Larry had absolutely no hand in the production models at all. He built the two and was done.

User avatar
Knatti
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:52 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Knatti » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:58 am

Image

When this auction was online in 2016, I hoped that the prospective buyer would post copies of the documents.
That might have helped to clear things up:

'Also included are all of the notes that Jim made regarding gear, guitars and his tech work from these days with Nirvana.
They show the details of these guitars, and others that were smashed and repaired, and smashed again.'

I don´t think that rockstarsguitars reveal their clients, but I´ll give it a try. If Jim Vincent is unreachable, maybe the buyer is not.
In any way, good lecture:

https://www.rockstarsguitars.com/produc ... itar-tech/


American Musical Supply sells a wide range of brands, but no Gotoh.

https://www.americanmusical.com/BrandLi ... ?initial=G


Also, the only Gibson bridge they have is the Nashville in gold or chrome.

https://www.americanmusical.com/gibson- ... ABR030-CHR


That doesn´t proof anything 28 years later, but back to facts:

1. Both Skystang I and Oranj-Stang were shipped 6/28/93 to Kurt.

2. After the Roseland rehearsals on 7/22/93 with the new Oranj-Stang, Kurt likely would have had a humbucker in his new guitar.

3. Earnie Baily bought a Seymour Duncan JB at American Musical Supply, on the day of the rehearsals.

Image

There are only two of Kurts guitars with a JB back then - Skystang I and Oranj-Stang, both first seen with a JB on 10/18/93.
Oranj received a JB JR. for the Roseland show, so the JB Earnie bought must have been for Skystang I, that was shipped with Oranj-Stang and therefore arrived together.

Otherwise Earnie wouldn't have bought a second full size humbucker on that very day. On the Roseland show one day later, Oranj-Stang was equipped with the white Seymour Duncan JB JR and a stock Mustang bridge.

Image

So I suppose that Earnie bought the JB JR together with the JB and also two GIBSON Nashville Tune-O-Matic bridges from American Musical Supply that ended on Oranj-Stang and Skystang I. These are the only Gibson Tune-O-Matic bridges American Musical Supply sells (today). When Skystang II and III and the Jagstang arrived, Earnie was out of business and John Duncan and (by 1994) Jim Vincent came in. John favored the ABR-1 and so did Jim. He worked on Pats guitars first and proofed, that he is a Gibson guy.

User avatar
Jelestang
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Jelestang » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:17 am

I would be interested to know how many have compared their new MIM Jag-Stangs against earlier models, I have a '95 MIJ and now a new '21 MIM in Right Handed form and there definitely are some differences, but I don't know if that just means the MIM is closer to the CIJ or whether Fender have done some legwork (or knicked it off here :w00t: ) to move closer to the original?

Without a laser scanner or a more accurate way of tracing the body, the main changes from 95 to 21 are that the smaller RH horn has a slightly deeper cutout resulting in a smaller radius, increasing hand access to the lowest frets, the outline of the hips has the centre point a little lower on the new one, and butt appears just slightly more rounded and larger radius on the MJ and with some smaller radius giving a slightly more jagged look to the MIM, though placing one guitar on top of the other shows a lot less difference than it appears to be when side-by-side.

I'm upset that these guitars that should be so accessible are really pricey, especially for a MIM rather that American made, and frankly for authenticity I'd rather it be from Japan, but I was one of the ones who decided to fork out. That might make me part of the problem but it was that or miss out. I always promised myself one of these but even when they were cheap and new during the second gen production run, I couldn't afford one and only recently bought my MIJ for far more than it should have been but it brings me an awful lot of happieness at least and will be no surprising that the affection for these instruments transcends objectivity. All I can say is I appreciate that I'm lucky enough to be able to do that but hope many that can't or don't want to stick it out with making replicas (which I did as well as a hybrid Tele / Jag-Stang), or persist with some of the brilliant Squiers out there or things like the MIM Duo-Sonic that comes up at decent prices from time to time.

Hope all are well

User avatar
HNB
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 13513
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 am
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by HNB » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:18 am

That seems to be the way it goes with guitars nowadays. If you aren't willing to pay the inflated price, someone else will. :(
Christopher
Lilith Guitars

User avatar
Amon 7.L
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:29 am

@Jelestang
PM'd

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by MattK » Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:35 am

Wouldn't the date on the price sticker of the Seymour Duncan JB be the date they put it on the shelf, not the date it was sold? They wouldn't change the price stickers daily!

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:47 pm

MatthewK wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:35 am
Wouldn't the date on the price sticker of the Seymour Duncan JB be the date they put it on the shelf, not the date it was sold? They wouldn't change the price stickers daily!
Should be. Despite Earnie's claims, I am 100% sure that JB went into Pat's American strat.

User avatar
BTL
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by BTL » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:16 am

Owner, Lowe Custom Guitars

User avatar
HNB
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 13513
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 am
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by HNB » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:31 am

Their use of large bold text is super distracting to read....
Christopher
Lilith Guitars

User avatar
FenderBob
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:26 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by FenderBob » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:40 am

Jelestang wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:17 am
I would be interested to know how many have compared their new MIM Jag-Stangs against earlier models, I have a '95 MIJ and now a new '21 MIM in Right Handed form and there definitely are some differences, but I don't know if that just means the MIM is closer to the CIJ or whether Fender have done some legwork (or knicked it off here :w00t: ) to move closer to the original?

I haven't scrutinized the body shape yet, but main cosmetic differences that I've noticed so far:

1.) MIM has better shaped pickguard at lower horn.
2.) MIM is lighter blue than MIJ / CIJ
3.) MIM has F stamped neckplate. MIJ / CIJ has blank neckplate
4.) MIM has sunken 3-ways switches similar to Cobain Mustang (to better stay out of the way when playing).
5.) MIJ / CIJ has superior workmanship on fretboard edges / fret edges. MIM has rough fretboard edges.
6.) MIM comes with a gig bag. Believe that Japanese ones came naked.
7.) MIM has a slightly changed font on "Jag-Stang" portion of decal.
8.) MIM has a slightly different control plate shape.
Overall feel is same as the older jagstangs.

Bought a discounted MIM sonic blue for a project couple weeks ago, but decided not to rip apart.
Last edited by FenderBob on Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:49 am

Anyone else extremely disappointed with this unlisted Fender video?

https://youtu.be/zF-1J7RsBxE

User avatar
FenderBob
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:26 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by FenderBob » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:52 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:49 am
Anyone else extremely disappointed with this unlisted Fender video?

https://youtu.be/zF-1J7RsBxE
Yes! little too generic, would have been nice to see something never seen before.

User avatar
BTL
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by BTL » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:51 pm

There's more substance in this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFB5Nx3avdo
Owner, Lowe Custom Guitars

User avatar
CROSS_guitars
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3112
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:52 am
Location: Thornbury Melbourne

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by CROSS_guitars » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:45 pm

Ha ha. Love the copyright friendly grunge riffs :D

Post Reply