Tuffset Bridge

[Biloxide]

Amazing build and design, it s like a rolex watch ...
The question is... how could be the price for this formula 1 of offset bridge ?

[Deed_Poll]

Amazing build and design, it s like a rolex watch ...
The question is... how could be the price for this formula 1 of offset bridge ?

I wish I could give you an exact answer right now, I'm still working with the manufacturers to make it as affordable as possible whilst keeping manufacture wholly in the UK.

Expect it to be priced competitively with other boutique offset bridges. But also expect it to look, sound and feel a huge step above anything currently available

[alexpigment]

Great work! I've signed up and am hoping that it gets released at a time when the GBP-USD ratio isn't too bad (we were basically 1:1 for a while there last year).

On a side note, I did have a question about the two main height adjustment screw shapes. It seems to me that the whole rocking/non-rocking debate is largely about returning to neutral/centered after trem use, but since the height adjustment screws come to a sharp point in the center of the thimble, there really is no "center" that it naturally wants to go to. Did you do any experimentation with shape of the bottom of those screws? I've always suspected - but could be wrong - that making it flat, or just shaving off the sharp tip of the screws by some amount would make it more likely to return to a neutral position in the thimble. Really just a curiosity, but I figured I'd ask.

[BTL]

This looks really great, congratulations!

[OffYourFace]

saw this on IG today, didn't realize it was you. I love the idea of a spring-less bridge. I'm looking forward to trying one.

[UlricvonCatalyst]

Amazing attention to detail - it really looks like you've thought of everything.

The traditional-ish aesthetics don't hurt either. Just hope you don't send the used Mastery market into negative equity!

[GilmourD]

Amazing attention to detail - it really looks like you've thought of everything.

The traditional-ish aesthetics don't hurt either. Just hope you don't send the used Mastery market into negative equity!

I think the Mastery is a different thing for a different player, to be honest, so I think it'll be fine.

[stickyfiddle]

Awesome stuff - I don't post on here regularly but do remember seeing your first posts on the early prototypes way back. This looks like an excellent bit of design that I'm very keen to try out.

As a Mastery & Staytrem user this honestly looks like it could be the best of all worlds with genuine per-string adjustment for intonation AND radius.

[GreenKnee]

Will there be an option for fixings/new thimbles that lock the bridge in position? I know it's designed to be rocking, and I have multiple guitars setup with rocking bridges, but on my main gigging guitar I really appreciate the fixed Mastery. I can throw that guitar around, whammy like crazy and still know that nothing will be out of position. The stability of a fixed bridge is important to me for that reason.

[Embenny]

Will there be an option for fixings/new thimbles that lock the bridge in position? I know it's designed to be rocking, and I have multiple guitars setup with rocking bridges, but on my main gigging guitar I really appreciate the fixed Mastery. I can throw that guitar around, whammy like crazy and still know that nothing will be out of position. The stability of a fixed bridge is important to me for that reason.

The mastery is designed with low friction saddles for that purpose.

If this bridge's saddle shape and material were chosen well (and I'm sure they were), it'll be high-friction to encourage rocking.

High friction saddles and a fixed bridge do not lead to tuning stability with vibrato use. They can't.

[GilmourD]

Will there be an option for fixings/new thimbles that lock the bridge in position? I know it's designed to be rocking, and I have multiple guitars setup with rocking bridges, but on my main gigging guitar I really appreciate the fixed Mastery. I can throw that guitar around, whammy like crazy and still know that nothing will be out of position. The stability of a fixed bridge is important to me for that reason.

The mastery is designed with low friction saddles for that purpose.

If this bridge's saddle shape and material were chosen well (and I'm sure they were), it'll be high-friction to encourage rocking.

High friction saddles and a fixed bridge do not lead to tuning stability with vibrato use. They can't.

What I WOULD love thimble-wise is if there was a proper option to retrofit ToM/AoM setups. I unfortunately don't have the startup funds but I've been toying with the idea of finding a machine shop local to me that would machine thimbles with the proper vintage inner diameter but with an outer diameter that fits in the holes of a ToM type bridge, like on a Mascis. I feel like that would be a big help for some people, especially since there's a bunch of Mascis bodies floating around on eBay that have no bushings/thimbles at all, but definitely for people that want to retrofit those and the Vintera Modified guitars.

[alexpigment]

What I WOULD love thimble-wise is if there was a proper option to retrofit ToM/AoM setups. I unfortunately don't have the startup funds but I've been toying with the idea of finding a machine shop local to me that would machine thimbles with the proper vintage inner diameter but with an outer diameter that fits in the holes of a ToM type bridge, like on a Mascis. I feel like that would be a big help for some people, especially since there's a bunch of Mascis bodies floating around on eBay that have no bushings/thimbles at all, but definitely for people that want to retrofit those and the Vintera Modified guitars.

There are several other ways around this that are fairly non-invasive and don't require removing the existing "thimbles". I have two of the Staytrem bridges made for AOM retrofits, and they used a pretty clever design. Essentially, there was a little threaded barrel that screwed down into the existing thimbles with a little 'nipple' on top (which had its own small hex key hole to screw it down). The bridge posts didn't have height screws in them, so the holes where the screws would be pivoted on that nipple. I'd have to double check later, but I'm pretty sure this was how it was. It is a great design that worked perfectly, and sadly they don't make them anymore.

With all that being said, there's a fairly cheap method to get this working with just a few items from Amazon:

viewtopic.php?t=113531

Note that others have omitted the nested smaller grub screw that I recommended (and apparently it works fine without it). Lastly, it's worth pointing out that any remaining tuning issues described in my original post were fixed by upgrading the trem. I think the trem spring just wasn't ideal on the one I previously had in it.

[GreenKnee]

The mastery is designed with low friction saddles for that purpose.

If this bridge's saddle shape and material were chosen well (and I'm sure they were), it'll be high-friction to encourage rocking.

High friction saddles and a fixed bridge do not lead to tuning stability with vibrato use. They can't.

I have an old Staytrem bridge with the plastic things to lock the bridge in the thimbles in a MIJ Jag and it's just as stable as the rocking Staytrem on my '62. Flatwound strings and lube enable the strings to glide over the saddle without issue. It's not like the saddle is knurled or rough to increase friction so I think it would work either way.

[Deed_Poll]

Hello all!

Great work! I've signed up and am hoping that it gets released at a time when the GBP-USD ratio isn't too bad (we were basically 1:1 for a while there last year).

On a side note, I did have a question about the two main height adjustment screw shapes. It seems to me that the whole rocking/non-rocking debate is largely about returning to neutral/centered after trem use, but since the height adjustment screws come to a sharp point in the center of the thimble, there really is no "center" that it naturally wants to go to. Did you do any experimentation with shape of the bottom of those screws? I've always suspected - but could be wrong - that making it flat, or just shaving off the sharp tip of the screws by some amount would make it more likely to return to a neutral position in the thimble. Really just a curiosity, but I figured I'd ask.

I would have to prepare a fairly long diatribe to answer this question - but the short answer is, there is almost always a very slight concave cone in the bottom of the thimble. Cone-tipped set screws in the length range required almost exclusively are mass produced with 120 degree tips. But the tips of almost all cone-tipped set screws are actually blunted (though the amount of blunting is variable). Some have a kind of swarf / burr edge prior to the plating which is sub-optimal. To cut a long story short, my feeling is that the ideal situation would be a sharper tip angle (perhaps 90 degrees) but with a correspondingly sharper concave cone in the thimble (maybe 120). But given that we have the existing thimbles to work with, we're sticking to a 120 degree post tip - although we are having them custom machined / ordered so that the tip does in fact end in a point to aid in locating them!

This looks really great, congratulations!

saw this on IG today, didn't realize it was you. I love the idea of a spring-less bridge. I'm looking forward to trying one.

Amazing attention to detail - it really looks like you've thought of everything.

The traditional-ish aesthetics don't hurt either. Just hope you don't send the used Mastery market into negative equity!

Awesome stuff - I don't post on here regularly but do remember seeing your first posts on the early prototypes way back. This looks like an excellent bit of design that I'm very keen to try out.

As a Mastery & Staytrem user this honestly looks like it could be the best of all worlds with genuine per-string adjustment for intonation AND radius.

Cheers guys! I'm majorly excited for all of you to try it too! When I first played the prototype, of course my mind was on the things I wanted NOT to be wrong - those things I had designed the bridge to prevent (like rattles) and the way it operates (ease of adjustment etc). But what I didn't have in my mind were the positive qualities of the bridge as far as sound and feel of the guitar... so those took me completely by surprise!

It actually cemented in my mind the value and qualities of a rocking bridge. My impressions were not "wow this is different", which is maybe what I was expecting. I was completely surprised - my main impression was "YES! I remember!". It was like the first time I played an offset, with the original bridge. For all its flaws, it just had that *something* about it I loved. And I was brought back to that moment - thankfully, with the flaws all ironed out!

What I WOULD love thimble-wise is if there was a proper option to retrofit ToM/AoM setups. I unfortunately don't have the startup funds but I've been toying with the idea of finding a machine shop local to me that would machine thimbles with the proper vintage inner diameter but with an outer diameter that fits in the holes of a ToM type bridge, like on a Mascis. I feel like that would be a big help for some people, especially since there's a bunch of Mascis bodies floating around on eBay that have no bushings/thimbles at all, but definitely for people that want to retrofit those and the Vintera Modified guitars.

On this - yes. We're working on it! It's one thing to make a great rocking bridge for Offsets whose other rocking options have issues of one sort or another, but a step above if we can make a rocking bridge easy to retrofit into an AOM or TOM-equipped guitar!

The equipment we're making a lot of the bridge components on (lathe mill) is really the perfect equipment to manufacture weirdly specific screws, cups and so on. So watch this space!

As for these questions about fixed-post/low-friction vs rocking-post/high-friction, It's a big topic and something that is asked all the time! All I would say is, that there's something about a rocking bridge that sounds and feels a bit different from a fixed/low friction bridge, especially when using the vibrato. That aspect is core to the way I feel about Offsets, and what makes them special to me. I also feel that, though both approaches and preferences are absolutely valid, I do think there is a pervasive rumour or perception that the rocking action is in some way what is "wrong" with the original bridges, and that absolutely is NOT the case. I'm going to prepare an article with a lot more detail for the mailing list, but the TL:DR version is that I think the problem is the wholesale transplant of a "traditional" bridge adjustment system into a context within which it will always struggle. So the string tension / downward pressure is being asked to do too much just to hold the damn components together, and there is a sort of helmholtz / bass trap effect that costs the sustain in this context. But more details to come!

Fundamentally, the issue with fixed-post/low-friction bridges is that the saddle is tasked with performing two contradictory actions at the same time and in the same place, so no matter how far you optimise it, there's always something left on the table. It has to constrain the string cleanly in one dimension to produce a node point; yet must also allow movement as free as possible in another dimension.

Just FYI, if I were to design a fixed-post / high-friction version (not likely to be soon) I would use the same locking system as the Tuffset, and have a few ideas of how to do the low friction aspect better than others! But I'm quite sure my preference would still be for a rocking bridge.

Thanks again for all your enthusiasm! Really glad to have you aboard

[alexpigment]

I would have to prepare a fairly long diatribe to answer this question - but the short answer is, there is almost always a very slight concave cone in the bottom of the thimble. Cone-tipped set screws in the length range required almost exclusively are mass produced with 120 degree tips. But the tips of almost all cone-tipped set screws are actually blunted (though the amount of blunting is variable). Some have a kind of swarf / burr edge prior to the plating which is sub-optimal. To cut a long story short, my feeling is that the ideal situation would be a sharper tip angle (perhaps 90 degrees) but with a correspondingly sharper concave cone in the thimble (maybe 120). But given that we have the existing thimbles to work with, we're sticking to a 120 degree post tip - although we are having them custom machined / ordered so that the tip does in fact end in a point to aid in locating them!

To be clear, I'm aware of the conical nature of the bottom of the thimbles. I just meant that in my experience, the screw point touches the very center of that concave point, and there's enough empty space all around it that the bridge can sit forward (in relation to the trem) or backward while still touching the 'center' of the thimble. I was just thinking aloud about how something flatter might have a greater chance of standing back at center once you let up on the trem (but again, I could be very incorrect). With all that being said, from the renders it seems that the angle that the screw is cut is quite a bit different than the current Fender offerings and/or appears to be physically wider, so maybe this all becomes a non-issue. Cheers, and thank you for the detailed response!