Wiring Kits

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
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Soniqfreq
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Re: Wiring Kits

Post by Soniqfreq » Mon May 29, 2023 5:53 am

timtam wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 12:13 am
Shielded conductors in the original MIJ wiring.

Your guitar cable to the amp is a shielded single conductor. Your internal guitar wiring should be too. That's why the Japanese chose it - standard electronics practice for low level signals. To protect them from external sources of interference.
Ah yes, the shielded wire is superior…I got that from your original post. I thought there was something more in the wiring schematic that you thought I needed to copy, because they do seem to use a slightly different schematic, too…would love a link to an MIJ schematic..in all my searching, have yet to see one…only vintage style and common mods to that.

Agreed, shielded wire is technically better. However, I don’t think in this application it’s optimal, nor elegant. Here is why….If you look at the wiring in the MIJ, the use of shielded cable requires each end point to be connected to ground…otherwise it’s useless. That’s 8 additional potential points of failure I’m unnecessarily introducing into my wiring. In fact, if you look closely to the MIJ in my pic, that’s exactly what happened on the 3-way. The solder joint was bad and the wire too taut and was detached. So basically there was no shielding happening at all! Also, there isn’t much space for adding additional grounds points by the rhythm switch.

That is the beauty of vintage style wiring. All the components ground directly to the pickguard shield except the pickups and rhythm cap. Only 2 total ground fault possibilities (3 once you include the ground to the vibrato). Also, as you noted, shielded wire is not even necessary since I can achieve the same effect rather easily by shielding the cavity and connecting it to the pickguard shield.

All that aside, the MIJ I bought (with Novaks already installed) sounded dull and lifeless and had no range with the pots. I thought I made my first purchase mistake. With my new rewire, the guitar now sounds alive, dynamic, is dead quiet, and a joy to play. The CTS pots allow for way more control over the tonal variation this guitar is now capable of…oh and to reiterate the reason I reopened this thread to begin with…EYGuitar parts were crappy…don’t waste your money like I did… :)

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Re: Wiring Kits

Post by Fiddy » Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm

Soniqfreq wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 10:02 pm


Educate me. What make's the before (MIJ) wiring scheme more optimal?
Their soldering doesn't look as sloppy as yours. Not sure if that's making a difference to the noise level...

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Re: Wiring Kits

Post by Soniqfreq » Mon May 29, 2023 5:32 pm

tribi9 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm

Their soldering doesn't look as sloppy as yours. Not sure if that's making a difference to the noise level...
You think that’s sloppy…you should hear me play. It’s all noise and with my rewired JM, it’s glorious.
Last edited by Soniqfreq on Mon May 29, 2023 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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timtam
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Re: Wiring Kits

Post by timtam » Mon May 29, 2023 7:54 pm

Soniqfreq wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:53 am
timtam wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 12:13 am
Shielded conductors in the original MIJ wiring.

Your guitar cable to the amp is a shielded single conductor. Your internal guitar wiring should be too. That's why the Japanese chose it - standard electronics practice for low level signals. To protect them from external sources of interference.
Ah yes, the shielded wire is superior…I got that from your original post. I thought there was something more in the wiring schematic that you thought I needed to copy, because they do seem to use a slightly different schematic, too…would love a link to an MIJ schematic..in all my searching, have yet to see one…only vintage style and common mods to that.

Agreed, shielded wire is technically better. However, I don’t think in this application it’s optimal, nor elegant. Here is why….If you look at the wiring in the MIJ, the use of shielded cable requires each end point to be connected to ground…otherwise it’s useless. That’s 8 additional potential points of failure I’m unnecessarily introducing into my wiring. In fact, if you look closely to the MIJ in my pic, that’s exactly what happened on the 3-way. The solder joint was bad and the wire too taut and was detached. So basically there was no shielding happening at all! Also, there isn’t much space for adding additional grounds points by the rhythm switch.

That is the beauty of vintage style wiring. All the components ground directly to the pickguard shield except the pickups and rhythm cap. Only 2 total ground fault possibilities (3 once you include the ground to the vibrato). Also, as you noted, shielded wire is not even necessary since I can achieve the same effect rather easily by shielding the cavity and connecting it to the pickguard shield.

All that aside, the MIJ I bought (with Novaks already installed) sounded dull and lifeless and had no range with the pots. I thought I made my first purchase mistake. With my new rewire, the guitar now sounds alive, dynamic, is dead quiet, and a joy to play. The CTS pots allow for way more control over the tonal variation this guitar is now capable of…oh and to reiterate the reason I reopened this thread to begin with…EYGuitar parts were crappy…don’t waste your money like I did… :)
I don't recall ever seeing a MIJ wiring diagram. Since Fender USA took over Fender Japan operations some years ago, maybe that will change in the future. The MIJ offset models have changed significantly since then, and often now have MIA components (eg V-mod pickups).

In the meantime, the other range that often uses shielded cabling is Squier (perhaps another reason why people mistakenly assume "shielded wire = poor wiring"). Unfortunately, Squier wiring diagrams are rare. But of the few that exist, some show shielded wiring eg Squier Vintage Modified JM below (the odd version with a strat-like output jack plate, and no rhythm circuit). It would be interesting for someone to compare a "full" Squier JM to MIJ JM shielded wiring. Once your hot and shield are physically paired, the scope for wiring variations for the same basic circuit is greatly reduced. So I wouldn't be surprised if Squier JM and MIJ JM shielded wiring is identical. As opposed to separate single conductors for hot and ground, where an engineer can design the wiring in multiple ways to the same end (and such idiosyncratic variation is not uncommon in Fender offsets).
Image

But overall, there's just no good reason in my mind for Fender to keep wiring guitars with unshielded cabling, other than minimizing production-time costs (although there are production line approaches to equalize costs; and I suspect shielded wire costs less than two lengths of cloth-covered wire). Of more concern, there have been recent Fender and Squier offset models with circuit boards replacing parts of the wiring, which greatly restricts one's ability to mod.

With shielded cable, connecting the shield to ground points at each end - since the shield also functions as the signal return line - is exactly how everyone working in electronics with low level signals has done it for decades. It is less ambiguous - there's no question as to whether the signal return/ground has been connected or not ... it's right there next to the hot in the same cable. That's not the case where the ground/signal return is a completely separate piece of wire. That ambiguity is manifested in the plethora or ground-related wiring problems that modders often face. Forums are full of people with wiring that doesn't work because they failed to connect all their single-wire grounds properly. But "points of failure" in general are a result of Fender not using the anti-body-rotation mechanisms on pots and switches, which creates a point of unnecessary stress on solder joints ... which would also be reduced if they used heatshrink over all such terminals, which also protects against shorts ... eg as in Rothstein harnesses, one of the few that do actually improve on Fender's wiring ...
Image
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Fiddy
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Re: Wiring Kits

Post by Fiddy » Mon May 29, 2023 10:17 pm

Soniqfreq wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:32 pm

You think that’s sloppy…you should hear me play. It’s all noise and with my rewired JM, it’s glorious.
Sorry, not all, but the grounds on both pots look a little sus.

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