jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

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Remork
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jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Remork » Wed May 12, 2021 10:34 am

hi all!

i'm looking to put a set of Burns Trisonics in a jaguar.
i actually bought two Squier donor jags in the same week - a surf green VM one, and a sunburst Classic Vibe three days later.
felt crazy decadent, but they were both good deals.. and i'm really glad i bit the bullet on the Classic Vibe because its neck is absolutely killer! not only does it look the part with the B+B, it feels a lot better than the VM to me. chunkier. closer to my preference, anyway ;)

for now the plan is to turn this into one workable guitar, and sell off the leftovers, as a guitar or parts.
so here's my two options, as i see them:

Image

- TriSonics in the surf green one.
while i think the white pickguard makes it look like a bit of a plastick toy, the added chrome would really help. plus, i could always swap pickguards. swap out the neck for the CV one, and done.

Image

- Trisonics in the Classic Vibe.
thing is, with that much chrome, i would much prefer a more even body colour. so i'm considering stripping off the sunburst and going charcoal or even black, and keeping the tort guard. kinda like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/offset/comment ... to_a_dark/, or this:
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:26 pm
Image

of course, i could also strip the surf green body. :unsure:
too many options.

so, opinions? surf green + white or darker + tort?
help would be appreciated!

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Remork » Wed May 12, 2021 10:36 am

Image

woah. talk me out of this :)

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by ohm-men » Fri May 14, 2021 10:52 am

Please don't strip the Sunburst Jag... It's a very nice looking 3 TSB... :?
I'd go with the Tri-sonics in the Surf green Jag ;)

Tough, I'm with you on the Squier B&B neck... I absolutely love these necks... :)

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by LVC » Fri May 14, 2021 11:47 am

Great project! I love Tri-Sonics, and I think they look perfect in Jags. Especially in black Jags.
I'd say strip and refin the CV, since you said it plays better.
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by mgeek » Fri May 14, 2021 1:05 pm

How about two tri sonics instead of three? Works better looks wise I think

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by bodhi » Fri May 14, 2021 2:23 pm

Well, Brian May never used a Jag mute, so neither should you? ;)

On a more serious note, I don't really like the strat style knob on anything else than a strat, kinda just looks out of place... The upper switch plate looks a bit too busy really, but I wonder if those might be Mustang switches? That would probably allow for setting up the upper "rhythm" circuit to be a full on Brian May Red special wiring, and by conjecture the lower switch plate is probably a five way, with all that enables. I'd guess just basic strat wiring though, as the Red special wiring is all series, so essentially you have a fairly flexible toggling scenario available...

You could go one step further and use concentric pots for the volume and tone, which would allow for a very flexible setup...

Aesthetically, I'd personally maybe try a really dark blue, green or maybe purple over the piano black, it'd maybe mesh better with the tort guard.

I'd also vote for grabbing the B&B neck and refinishing the turqoise body, to keep the 3TSB, unless it seems to feel a lot different.
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Deed_Poll » Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 pm

bodhi wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:23 pm
Well, Brian May never used a Jag mute, so neither should you? ;)

On a more serious note, I don't really like the strat style knob on anything else than a strat, kinda just looks out of place... The upper switch plate looks a bit too busy really, but I wonder if those might be Mustang switches? That would probably allow for setting up the upper "rhythm" circuit to be a full on Brian May Red special wiring, and by conjecture the lower switch plate is probably a five way, with all that enables. I'd guess just basic strat wiring though, as the Red special wiring is all series, so essentially you have a fairly flexible toggling scenario available...

You could go one step further and use concentric pots for the volume and tone, which would allow for a very flexible setup...

Aesthetically, I'd personally maybe try a really dark blue, green or maybe purple over the piano black, it'd maybe mesh better with the tort guard.

I'd also vote for grabbing the B&B neck and refinishing the turqoise body, to keep the 3TSB, unless it seems to feel a lot different.
If that is indeed what's going on, I'd like to know what's going on under the 2-way "rhythm circuit" selector... I've done something similar with my Jaywalker design, and that required an 8-gang switch to select the Series/Phase (Serpha) circuit, meaning I had to use a pair of 4-gang switches (I will go back and figure out a lever to tie their operation back together).

Stacked concentric volume and tone pots is another thing I'm also doing now, and it works nicely in context since it evokes the early Jazz Bass control plate! But I'm having to alter them to make them a bit shorter, since the tall knobs risk conflicting with the vibrato arm.

The only other difference between it and what you describe is that it uses three on/off switches in the parallel circuit, mounted to a Jag hex plate ;)

Image

Apologies for derailing the thread somewhat! But there are definitely some super cool and usable tones in there. The use of a Jag (with 24" scale like the Red Special) and the Trisonic pickups is just too cool of a hybrid that my vote would be to get a new body / refinish the one you have in cherry mahogany and get a 1-ply black guard, turn the Jag in to a Red Serval!
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Fiddy » Fri May 14, 2021 5:56 pm

mgeek wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:05 pm
How about two tri sonics instead of three? Works better looks wise I think
Im down with this suggestion.

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Remork » Sun May 16, 2021 3:05 am

wow, thanks for chiming in!
so i'm mostly hearing 'save the 3TSB'.
which may be a good thing - i don't have any shirts to match that surf green on stage anyway ;)
and i like surf green, but only when it's been damaged to bits, if you know what i mean.

also, no real difference in feel between the two bodies. although it's possible that the grain on the green is less interesting, since it was never going to be visible. but that's just me guessing. would have to strip it to be sure :whistle:
bodhi wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:23 pm
I don't really like the strat style knob on anything else than a strat, kinda just looks out of place... The upper switch plate looks a bit too busy really
completely agree. not planning on anything other that a jag diamond plate ATM..
as to concentric pots -i dunno. i have a couple on a dano 12 string, and i NEVER use them. they're a pain to adjust live, so they live wide open, which kinda spoils the tone shaping fun.
Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 pm

Image
wow. totally digging the amoutn of chrome there.
but that looks utterly confusing ;D
if that doesn't get you tonal variation, what will?

as for progress: i tried the trisonics quick n'dirty, just screwed them to the body (after some mild chiseling) and put their wires where the jag pickups went.
the neck sounds great. the bridge - uh - not so much, especially on the three highest strings. no sustain and extremely spiky. probably not the best match for the original vol pot (which i suspect is 1M) anyway, so will have to tinker.

(having said that - maybe i'd like the CV jag pickups on my setup better with a sacriligeous lower pot value.. oh god :fp: )

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by solfege » Sun May 16, 2021 5:22 am

Another consideration is that the finish on these guitars is almost impossible to remove. You'd need a heat gun, and even that'd be a huge pain. Working with what's there is a vastly easier option.

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by bodhi » Sun May 16, 2021 9:10 am

Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 pm
bodhi wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:23 pm
On a more serious note, I don't really like the strat style knob on anything else than a strat, kinda just looks out of place... The upper switch plate looks a bit too busy really, but I wonder if those might be Mustang switches? That would probably allow for setting up the upper "rhythm" circuit to be a full on Brian May Red special wiring, and by conjecture the lower switch plate is probably a five way, with all that enables. I'd guess just basic strat wiring though, as the Red special wiring is all series, so essentially you have a fairly flexible toggling scenario available...
If that is indeed what's going on, I'd like to know what's going on under the 2-way "rhythm circuit" selector... I've done something similar with my Jaywalker design, and that required an 8-gang switch to select the Series/Phase (Serpha) circuit, meaning I had to use a pair of 4-gang switches (I will go back and figure out a lever to tie their operation back together).

Stacked concentric volume and tone pots is another thing I'm also doing now, and it works nicely in context since it evokes the early Jazz Bass control plate! But I'm having to alter them to make them a bit shorter, since the tall knobs risk conflicting with the vibrato arm.

The only other difference between it and what you describe is that it uses three on/off switches in the parallel circuit, mounted to a Jag hex plate ;)
Hmm, on closer reflection, I'm not sure if it can be done. The phase toggles needing to move the ground connection is a bit of a pickle, and you'd certainly need a 4pdt for the slide switch minimally... Intuitively with a theoretical 5pdt it should be possible, but not sure about how to manage the pickup leads with 4pdt without trying to work everything out all the way. May well be that I'm missing some detail.
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by bodhi » Sun May 16, 2021 9:19 am

Remork wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 3:05 am

completely agree. not planning on anything other that a jag diamond plate ATM..
as to concentric pots -i dunno. i have a couple on a dano 12 string, and i NEVER use them. they're a pain to adjust live, so they live wide open, which kinda spoils the tone shaping fun.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think it might be a question of having knobs with the correct relative sizes... I'm using some of these on an upcoming build, and at least with "dry fitting" and testing it out it seemed that I could target the right section with my pinkie based on trying to ride the base or the upper edge. The spacing seemed large enough and each part rolled freely, but I guess I'll have to see if it works out when I'm done with the project...

https://adpguitarparts.fr/en/bass-knobs ... 17007.html
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Deed_Poll » Mon May 17, 2021 10:27 am

It depends on how much you like to chop and change volume on the fly when playing live of course, but I think concentric pots do have some utility in certain situations even without touching them during performance. For instance, on the Jaywalker, it would depend on which of the two banks you had configured for your lead or rhythm sound, and the fact that series and phase options can either drastically thin out or thicken up the sound, it might be useful to have the Serpha circuit slightly rolled off on the volume if it's in-phase, or conversely to have the parallel circuit a bit lower if the Serpha is running out-of-phase.

It does look terribly complicated, but I promise it becomes like second nature! A switch for each pickup in two banks, and another switch to swap banks 😉

Bodhi, there might be a simpler way to do it, but the way things worked out in my schematic, it was looking like a minimum of 7 poles, and I think I used the 8th just for the sake of simplifying some of the grounding. I'm no wiring expert! But unless there's a way to do it on 4 poles, it would mean having to marry two separate switches anyway, so I settled for that.
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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Remork » Mon May 17, 2021 11:45 am

let me see if i understand :)
- you have three on/off switches on the diamond plate
- you have three on/off switches on the upper bout as well
- two extra upper bout switches are a switch to select between those two 'banks', and a series/parallel switch? or one bank is series, the other is parallel? phase switch then?

and i get the need for workable concentric pots (as opposed to the Dano..) but i'm afraid my right hand technique really lacks the precision for fine adjustments live. sloppy and heavy-handed is the name of the game ::)

on the black jag w/trisonics, i actually think it's not mustang (on/off/on) switches, but three regulars..
i think it's just the size of the roller holes that's a bit big.
that would indeed allow for three phase switches, and leave one more regular switch for -uh- whatever it's for.

for my mod, i'm looking to just choose between series and parallel and go with that.
on my gold foil JM, the series was ridiculously similar sounding to parallel, just louder. so: better. :)
i am a sucker for phase switching however. i was thinking i'd only need two phase switches for three pickups, strictly speaking.. so maybe a push/pull pot for both vol and tone would get me there.

as for paint stripping: i do have a heat gun, and i tried it on my olympic white squier on a spot underneath the pickguard when i got it. i was surprised how easily it came off TBH - heat it up, scoop it off.. so with a bit of luck, these are no different. fingers crossed.

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Re: jag w/ trisonics - opinions welcome

Post by Deed_Poll » Tue May 18, 2021 9:02 am

Hey Remork!

You're almost exactly right - yes, there are two banks each with three switches, and those switches map to the pickups. But the "switch" to swap banks on the bass horn is actually *two* switches, which I plan to bridge across so they act as *one* switch. I had to do this because I couldn't find a single slider switch with enough poles to do the job. But just pretend one of those switches isn't there!

The only other clarification is that there's no separate phase switch - rather, on the bass horn, the switches are *3-way* for each pickup, and operate the same way as on a Mustang (PhaseAOn-Off-PhaseBOn). The difference between this and the Mustang is that this circuit is *always* wired in series, and there are three pickups, so you have a total of 10 extra sounds that you can't get from the parallel circuit, and also three redundancies (each pickup on its own). So if your "solo" sound is the bridge pickup with vol and tone on 10, you can theoretically set that to either bank, and have your choice of any phase / series / parallel option for your "rhythm" sound. This is where having concentric pots might be handy - if only to have them dimed for your "solo" sound.

I hope that's clearer! It's basically a Red Special standing in for the Rhythm Circuit, and with (I believe) a clearer and more mappable functionality and half as many switches.

The only thing it *won't* do is parallel / out of phase. But I've personally never been a big fan of this sound on single-coil guitars, and even where I am a fan of it (on Peter Green's Les Paul) I can't help but think it would be even better if it was wired in series anyway!
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