Rocking bridge or not?

[itstooloudMike]

I think the "problem" is when the strings actually slide over the saddles during tremolo action, which is not by design, and does alter intonation by not allowing the bridge posts to re-center correctly. This issue would occur more often when there is reduced downward string pressure on the saddles. Both using lighter gauge strings and reducing string break angle are likely to reduce downward pressure on the saddles, making it difficult for the stock floating bridge to perform as designed. In my case, I have found that using 11s (minimum), along with shimming the neck and raising the bridge to increase the string break angle over the saddles, has created enough downward pressure that I have no problems with the stock bridge. The bridge rocks per design when I use the tremolo, and the bridge posts always re-center. This tells me that the strings are not sliding over the saddles, thus maintaining intonation. I also have no problem with strings jumping to the next saddle groove when I bend. This is also likely due to having sufficient downward string pressure on the saddles. So, in my belief, the original design intent only works well when you increase the neck-to-body angle by shimming, raise the bridge and lower the saddles to get the action you want.

[Nick and the Noise]

I recommend Planet Waves Guitar Nut Lubricant to get your nuts smooth, frictionless and shining. Of course they should be properly cut and adjusted to string size first. On what forum am I again?

[tvrf]

I have a rocking Staytrem bridge and it works perfectly. I think even the guys at Staytrem say it's designed to rock and that non-rocking is an option.

[littlericky]

I've removed the shim and set the Jag up with 11's. The bridge is set fairly low now and I removed the sleeve I added so the bridge rocks freely. All seems good to me now as far as the intonation and tuning.

With a complete set up (polished the frets, fine-tuned the nut height, shortened the saddle springs as needed , locked the saddle screws, greased the bridge pivot points) this guitar is a dream to play.

[Larry Mal]

I have a rocking Staytrem bridge and it works perfectly. I think even the guys at Staytrem say it's designed to rock and that non-rocking is an option.

That they do. John at StayTrem is of the belief, which I don't share, that the rocking bridge is better.

[arkivel]

Id really like to buy a staytrem bridge with the non-rocking posts and get the saddles hard chrome plated.

[eigentone]

Without question, Non-Rocking if you don't use the trem.

Non-Rocking if you want the lesser tuning evils and you do use the trem.

Ok, some people claim it works great as designed, but that is not my experience and the bridge doesn't return to the same place when using the vibrato (or changing strings, etc). I'm with Larry. Tuning and staying in tune (for me) has been much easier with a non-rocking bridge since fewer things have the ability to move out of place. I'm fussy about tuning and never enjoyed attempting to position a bridge on the fly after it moved out of place.

Non-rocking bridges include Staytrem (on request) and Mastery. Both work well.

[FrankRay]

It works great as designed. First thing I always do when buying a secondhand Jag is removing the masking tape from around the bridge. If the bridge returns to a slightly different position, a small wiggle with the trem arm should sort it out.
You know there is no fixed tuning, right? A few cents either way doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.

[eigentone]

You know there is no fixed tuning, right?

Equal Temperament with A at 440 Hz is the standard when common guitars are involved.

A few cents either way doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.

Being in tune matters to me, but I am probably "cursed" because I lived in studios for some years. Recording engineers and Producers will often halt the session if an instrument cannot play in tune. Yeah, guitars are imperfect in this regard but there's a difference in a note being 2 cents sharp vs 10 cents sharp. Thus, it's much easier to keep a guitar in tune with fewer variables. A rocking bridge which slips around just complicates trying to get a take (in tune) when in the studio. Non-Rocking bridges are a huge improvement in my book. I've been playing offsets for almost 20 years and tried numerous things.

[Kiso]

I think the rocking bridge works great! I use the trem a lot and often quite aggressively and the bridge always centers itself. The only time the bridge moves out of position is when I physically hit it with my hand whilst strumming hard as f*ck, but even then the tuning/intonation isn't that far off. And if the bridge goes backwards when I hit it (which is like 90% of the time) I just pull up on the arm as much as it goes which makes the strings slide back into position which in turn perfectly centers the bridge again.

I tune down to C standard and use 12-56s if that might be relevant, they're thick but the tension isn't high.

[CorporateDisguise]

My guess is that the tolerances when making the stock bridge are all over the place. You may have bridge with small posts, or the thimbles may be a bit to wide. I've certainly encountered bridges that don't need a thing, while others take a vast amount of attention.
When the stock bridge gives me issues, I tend to put a few wraps of electrical tape around the posts to restrict the amount of motion possible. There's definitely a Goldilocks zone. To much motion and the bridge may not return to its resting position, and to little motion and the strings may bind on the bridge. It takes some playing with but once you get it right your good. My jazzmaster is the most stable guitar I own in regards to tuning. Granted a Tusc nut and locking tuners don't hurt.

[k701]

I recently took the tape off my posts (put it on previously as it would get locked to one side). The tone was instantly more lively. There is still tape gunk left on there which seems to somehow be preventing it from locking to one side? I've noticed that the rock is minimal when using the trem. Without the string tension there it moves around a lot more. I guess this is how it should be.

[tendingtropic]

hi everyone, I'm new here; just wondering when reading this: what is the potential benefit of a rocking bridge?

[timtam]

hi everyone, I'm new here; just wondering when reading this: what is the potential benefit of a rocking bridge?

It was part of Leo's original (clever) design for the trem. The strings change length with trem use. So at the string-saddle contact points, the string is trying to move over the saddles. If string-saddle friction is high enough, the strings grip the saddles and the bridge rocks all the way forward and back with the string length changes, and returns to exactly where it started. So tuning and intonation remains stable.

But if string saddle friction is too low, the strings can lose their grip on the rocking bridge, resulting in the bridge not returning to exactly where it started. High string-saddle friction comes from higher string tension (gauge) and/or higher string break angle (hence tapered neck pocket angle/shim). So it's the combination of the two that ultimately determines if friction is high enough for consistent rocking.

Of course if one lubricates the string-saddle contact points on a rocking bridge, all bets are off - that's a recipe for inconsistent rocking and tuning instability. Fender used to have online instructions for offset setup that said to do exactly that !

A fixed bridge like the Mastery relies on the opposite physics - low string-saddle friction; because the strings then have no choice but to slide over the saddles with trem use. So ... lower string tension and/or break angle.

If you look at OSG discussions over the years, the understanding of these things has advanced even since 2016 when this thread started. But decades ago the only 'fixes' dreamed up by techs - who didn't understand Leo's design at all - were things like taping the bridge posts to lock the bridge in place, or putting a (fixed) TOM bridge or buzzstop on them. None of those are necessary. Now we also have more bridge choices that deal better with things like strings jumping out of the shallow threaded slots on the vintage-style bridge (ie Mustang-style bridges with deeper string slots).

[Lost In Autumn]

An offset bridge is like a teenage delinquent: it wants to be high and it wants to rock.