Taking off a JM's edge without changing the sound...

[PuppyGirlBelly]

Hi Folks, I just wanted to get some heads on how to take of the harsh treble-y edge of a Jazzmaster without drastically changing the sound; and avoiding adding expensive equipment or drastic mods to my guitars.

Currently in my JMJM I have SD Antiquity II's, and they are excellent pickups. However, there are times where I struggle to get to the Goldilocks zones with certain pedals and sounds where I can roll off the highs without muddying the sound too much. Currently I have done the following;

1. Replaced the pots from 1M to 500K.
   - This lowered the resonant peak down too much and made it no longer sound like my jazzmaster.
2. Tried to wrap the positive and ground wires in the guitar as much as possible to increase capacitance.
   - Hard to tell since I didn't do an A/B test, but it does seem like there was a slight decrease in noise and high-end.
3. Used Fezz Parka/50's wiring for the volume/tone control.
   - I didn't think this would decrease high end, but it definitely didn't reduce the high-end roll-off when rolling off the volume pot. I found it easier to get a fatter sound, but it took very specific settings to get a needed high-end roll-off (as I needed to keep the volume either on 9, or below 3, to reduce the treble). So this one was a failure.
4. Required the rhythm circuit switch to a series/parallel switch.
   - Definitely emphasized more bass and mids when engaged, but it no longer sounded like my jazzy when engaged. And, honestly, the sound difference wasn't extreme enough to warrant keeping; but also wasn't as pleasing as a PAF in terms of humbucking sounds.

My next plans on trying to reduce treble will include;

• Using a very long/coiled guitar cable to introduce impedance.
  - Ideally I don't want to add a cumbersome cable to add mess; plus quality coiled guitar cables are pretty expensive up here in Canada.
• Recreating the above with a decade box of capacitors.
  - Ideally I don't want to add something to my pedal board, or add bulk to my guitar.
• Shielding the guitar with copper to hopefully introduce capacitance; including lining the pickup covers.
  - I have heard mixed things about whether this actually affects the tone on a guitar, but regardless I am hoping that this will at least have a positive affect in noise reduction.
• Wiring a very low value capacitor (e.g. 100pF) in parallel with the pickup switch to shift the resonant peak down slightly.
  - Probably the best option, and could also add it to a Push/Pull pot for making it switchable.

If any of y'all have feedback or suggestions on other avenues to try, I am all ears.

[JSett]

Sound's silly but, have you tried just knocking the tone control down a touch?

I used 500k in my JM for a while and it still sounded enough like a JM to me. It's had about 20 different pickups since though, so I've forgotten how it sounded.

I just tweak the amps tone controls now

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

- Flatwound Strings!

Were you able to get your desired sound with a volume pot roll down? If so: either learn to work with it or measure it rolled slightly off (wherever you like it) and find the closest value.

I‘ve also heard of mixtures with 250k Volume and 1 Meg Tone (or the other way around) with good results.

And yes, the amp is a good counterpart (or do you have two guitars in your setup and the JM is so much brighter as the other?

[alexpigment]

I would suggest going back to 1meg pots and putting a treble bleed on the volume. Additionally, you can try smaller cap values on the tone pot so that it rolls off only the higher end of the treble.

[distressed]

Sound's silly but, have you tried just knocking the tone control down a touch?

This.

I've tried 500K pots and found that some of the classic JM character has gone, it was more like Strat or Tele. So I went back to 1 Meg, and I roll off tone pot if necessary. You can always roll of the highs, but you cannot add what isn't there.

[marqueemoon]

Antiquity IIs don’t sound like the right pickups for the sound you’re after.

That said, whatever you’re using for an amp and effects is going to be a huge factor.

For example, I have a pretty scooped sounding JM, but with a Swart amp and a Klone for more mids it totally works. If you have a bright guitar, use darker sounding reverbs and delays, and so on.

Another strategy that can be pretty effective if using a tube amp is letting the signal hitting the amp be pretty bright, but setting the amp itself darker.

[DrippyReverbTremolo]

Can you post a photo of your set-up? Your pickups may be set too high. Try lowering the neck pup to where the 4 tabs that hold the screws are lower than the pickguard. Then lower the bridge pup to balance the volume.

[B.T.]

250k volume plus 500k tone in the lead position, and 1M volume plus 50k tone modified into a no load pot in the rhythm section. 1M is pretty close to no load and Leo had a lot of 1M pots laying around.

So modifying the 50k tone to a no-load basically gets you the best of both worlds traditional Jazzmaster tones from the stock vintage lead and rhythm circuits. *

The 250k/500k combo gets you more mellower Strat/Tele tones by dialing back the 500k tone pot a little, and in full-on position gets you into more Ric toaster era territory.

*You MUST cut the track on the 50k opposite side than normal for it to work in the Jazzmaster/Jag circuit for it to work the way you expect. I learned that the hard way!

Edit:

I forgot to mention with this setup you wire the upper bout switch to switch between the two circuits. In this configuration the rhythm circuit is setup to allow both pickups to be switched by the lower bout switch much like how the standard lead circuit is stock.

[andy_tchp]

Antiquity IIs don’t sound like the right pickups for the sound you’re after.

This.

Antiquity Is or Sunday Handwound Woodys do.

[jorri]

lower your pickups?! a lot of this just seems like unnecessary fiddling that barely affects much for something that can drastically change your sound so much.

then strings

or get some some kind of preamp pedal.

p.s. a tone control only really brings the capacitor into play when its below about 5. Above that it has much similar effect to having swapped your volume pot values, or if its swapping the tone control then pretty much the same because that's just a variable resistor. Am I the only one who's been leaving the tone pot on 8 instead of swapping pots? https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/threa ... capacitors

the impedance is an equation that involves both pots. the result is a larger resonance peak in the treble frequencies when they are higher in value. The effect of cable capacitance will just move that peak around. not by a huge amount, i mean, if it was a huge peak at 4k then you get it to a huge peak at 3k by using crappy cabling its probably not what you are looking for.

[tequila_in_teacups]

I've been trying out a few different EP-3-style preamp pedals lately, and I think they all do what you're aiming for. They just subtly colour your basic sound and, in my experience, tame the spikiness and give you a little more low end.

If you're looking for cheap, you could try something like the Mosky BP or XP booster (they're the same, I think). It doesn't have to boost, it can just be a tone shaper. There are a couple of dip switches on the inside for different EQ and reducing the boost.

[crazyzeke]

This is a really tough and contentious thing because every mod you do can take you away from the classic vintage tone of an offset - yes that includes the myriad variations Fender and Squier produce, to be fair. How desirable that is, really comes down to the player. My Jag doesn't really do regular Jag tones any more (how could it - it has a Hot Rails Strat pickup in the bridge among other changes), and for me that's perfect, it's a still unique and versatile all-rounder for most of what I play and that's why it's my main, but that'd be a total turn off for some players. For me, despite every change I've made to my Jag, I consider the vibrato system integral to the offset tone and it does persist through a lot of mods. Stoptail Gibson style on Jags and JMs makes them not offset tone at all, and moving the vibrato plate to change the break angle? Not as huge a change as not having the vibrato system at all but it still affects the tone.

I honestly think either a compressor pedal with EQ or slightly hotter pickups are going to be the solution here though - not mega high output because that'll take you too far from vintage, but it might help the guitar be a little more controllable. Something that gives more of a mid push, and less of a treble one, perhaps a little extra squeeze to even out the sound. I always found stock vintage (or repros of vintage) pickups in JMs and Jags to be very mid scooped by default - some bass, lots of treble including some very high treble/presence for a guitar at least and therefore only good for very specific tones, that requiring a lot of attack and not a lot of sustain. Funk and surf, sure, but just not great for anything needing distortion, so that rules out a lot of rock music.

I think in a way it comes down to what the OP is playing, and how. Think about how often you run clean versus overdriven/distorted. How much are you willing to compromise some dynamic range and some presence in the extreme top end of the guitar to get something that's not icepick treble on the wrong setting.

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EDIT: Don't know how much this would help, but I have a Meteora specifically for more vintage tones as it's got super low output coil tappable humbuckers, and I fatten it up by using a Catalinbread SCP based pedal circuit and rolling back the tone slightly. I bought it specifically to keep it stock, so this helps me keep the tone it has while also meaning it can get closer to the much, much hotter pickups on the Jag without totally getting rid of the presence and twang.

[PuppyGirlBelly]

Thanks for all of your tips!

Anyways, as for the pickup situation I do really like my Antiquity II's. To the point that I'm scared to swap from them since they're the sound I'm used to

But I'll try lowering the pickups further, I did play around with them before but I'll see if going lower may give me a slightly less treble-y sound.

And the EP Booster sounds like it might be a good idea, I was hoping to avoid adding anything to my pedalboard. But a 1590A-sized pedal might squeeze in without issue. Plus I have been considering grabbing a clean boost after stacking one with a dirt pedal a friend is currently making

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As for the tone knob, I should have mentioned I usually ride mine around 2-6. Though I am finding recently that it has little effect on the highs until I get to the 1-3 mark. So maybe I should try taking a look at what taper is currently in it's place, and swapping it for a linear/anti-log to see if that helps with making the tone more useful to me.