Stretching strings - have we always been doing this wrong?

[alexpigment]

When I first started playing guitar back in the day, I learned from others to stretch the strings all the way up and down the neck with little micro-bends between my thumb and index finger. At some point I started incorporating pushing the strings downward behind the nut as part of my stretching. Based on how quickly this would cause it to go out of tune on a fresh set of strings, I started to focus more on this, and at this point I only push the strings down past the nut to 'stretch' the strings. Also, because it's a more focused routine, I can do this routine of 3 'stretch-then-tune's in about a minute.

Perhaps others have some more scientific and interesting input, but my theory is that "stretching" is really just making a) the string winds tighter around the post, and b) making the crimped angle of the string as it goes into the post hole settle into something close to a sharp angle. Until this happens, there's a little bit of movement of the string on the tuning post.

Going just a bit further, I'm wondering if "stretching" is completely pointless on locking tuners. Do you locking tuner guys have to do 2-3 "stretches" before the tuning stabilizes or does it instantly stay in tune (relatively speaking) after the first tune-up on a new set of strings?

[marqueemoon]

In my experience there’s still a lot of benefit to stretching strings with locking tuners. They do seem to settle in more quickly though.

[OffYourFace]

All I can say is it depends on the brand of strings and the environment/temperature. When i was a professional touring guitar tech, one guy had a few Reverend guitars with locking tuners. There wasn't a heavy break angle behind the nut but I still had to do stretching. These guitars also had Wilkinson tremolos so stretching was a must. For context, we used Ernie Ball 10s for E standard and 11s for Eb. I usually had to stretch then lubricate (Big Bends Nut Sauce) just a touch more after sound check, depending on the guitar and temperature of the venue. The Late Night TV shows & Good Morning America were the worst, so cold inside!

[alexpigment]

The Late Night TV shows & Good Morning America were the worst, so cold inside!

That certainly makes sense. It feels like temperature and humidity within a room are the main reasons why any unattended guitar goes out of tune in the first place. If I pick up a guitar and it's half a step sharp or flat, it's usually because it got colder or hotter in the room.

Also, just to be clear, I wasn't really focused on the locking tuners aspect - that was just an extra curiosity I suppose. Really, I just wondered if anyone else had tried 'stretching' the strings only by pushing the strings down behind the nut. My experience over the past 2-3 years tells me that the 'up and down the neck' process of stretching seems to be a slow and indirect method of addressing the actual problem - that is, trying to get the strings to settle into position on the tuning post.

[Larry Mal]

I don't do a lot of stretching, and I always use locking tuners. I feel my guitars stay in tune well, especially the acoustics.

When I change strings I usually just slop them up to some kind of tension and come back to it in half an hour, then I bring it up to tune bass to treble, then it's out of tune so I do another run bass to treble, and then it seems to be in tune as far as you could really want.

If I have a guitar with one of them new whammy bars I'll pull that up and down a little bit to stretch them out. Usually I don't bother and don't seem to need to. I'm not saying that locking tuners are better in this regard, although I could probably muster up some kind of argument based around how you don't wrap strings with locking tuners.

[OffYourFace]

My experience over the past 2-3 years tells me that the 'up and down the neck' process of stretching seems to be a slow and indirect method of addressing the actual problem - that is, trying to get the strings to settle into position on the tuning post.

You're lucky that works for you. I assume strings last a long time for you?

It all depends how hard a person plays. The same applies at the bridge, what goes on behind the saddle (minus acoustic guitars and wraparound bridges obv). The strings will stretch the whole length.. With tremolo block (strat etc) guitars, I'd leave the strings a bit slack when stretching to hopefully affect the 2" or so after the ball end. With Tuneomatics & Offsets, I'll stretch the area behind the bridge. That area will continue to stretch especially if the player does a lot of bending.

If you put a set of new strings on, don't stretch before tuning and then stretch the wound strings, they'll detune a great amount. Sometimes down a 5th or more. You're not going to avoid that just by stretching behind the nut. I only want the strings to detune by a half step when I pull hard on them. That's just a measure of safety for a gig IMO/E.

I remember in the 90s DR strings would recommend NOT stretching their strings to make them last longer. They would suggest just playing the guitar as normal and retune until the strings settle in. This method works for any set of strings if you've got the time. Obviously when you need to change strings everyday for a pro this is not a good method. I'd say for the average person, the up and down string stretching is not necessary. I don't do it to my guitars unless I've got a gig, In that case, i'll change and stretch the day before.

[alexpigment]

Strings "lasting a long time" a bit of a subjective and nebulous concept. I usually notice the divots in the unwound strings from the frets before I really notice much change in tone (it's a gradual change, after all) - that's when I will put on new strings. I pretty much only use GHS Boomers for what it's worth, and I believe they are still round core while many of the other big brands have moved to hex core (that may or may not be an important factor).

But yes, the method I described seems to work fine for me in practice. String up, bend down behind the nut, tune up, repeat 2 more times, and it pretty much stays in tune as well as its going to after that point. This is true on my Offsets, Teles, Strats, etc.

[timtam]

The scientific question is straightforward - does the music wire steel (ASTM A228) from which most strings are made undergo plastic deformation when initially placed under tension or not. That is, does music wire stretch to a longer length but not return all the way back to its exact previous length. And then after several such stretching cycles, subsequently display only elastic deformation - stretch to longer length followed by return to the exact pre-stretch length.

If music wire steel doesn't plastically deform, then "stretching" strings made of music wire prior to use would instead be solely for taking any slack out of the tuner windings, and bedding the strings down at the witness points - the points at which the string undergoes a bend, like at the saddles and nut.

The few string makers with significant engineering research departments - like D'Addario - would know the definitive answer to the plastic deformation question. But AFAIK they have never provided it. They have however stated that strings do need to be stretched. They just haven't explained why - plastic deformation and/or taking out the slack ?
https://www.daddario.com/the-lesson-roo ... ic-guitar/

One thing we do know - you can over-stretch wound strings to the point where the core separates from the winding if you're not careful, especially round-core ...
https://youtu.be/6RZAZH9PAzM?t=909

[OffYourFace]

One thing we do know - you can over-stretch wound strings to the point where the core separates from the winding if you're not careful, especially round-core ...

Yes you def can. That's why I don't really do it to my own guitars. I can't afford that. For normal use (usually home recording), I use a polishing cloth and go up and down just once while the guitar is detuned. When I say detuned, I mean it's tuned but low like around C to C, something like that. I don't pull too hard, just a bit firm. Then I stretch behind the nut. On my JM, I also stretch behind the bridge, just one time each. I tune up, re-intonate where necessary and just start playing for about 20 min. If I have a gig, I make sure I do this the day before and not the day of.

But now I'm curious. I will try alexpigment's way next time and see what my results are
My old Tele has Sperzels on it (long story but Keef did it so... haha. I'm actually going to use conversion bushings and Gotoh Klusons soon) and I've always felt I needed to give the strings a good stretch on that guitar. So we'll see!

[tqi]

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[JVG]

Perhaps others have some more scientific and interesting input, but my theory is that "stretching" is really just making a) the string winds tighter around the post, and b) making the crimped angle of the string as it goes into the post hole settle into something close to a sharp angle. Until this happens, there's a little bit of movement of the string on the tuning post.

This is also my belief, although perhaps there is also some amount of actual stretching (plastic deformation) occurring.

I try not to over-think it. I tune the guitar up, bend each string by 2-3 semitones a bunch of times somewhere near the 12th fret, tune up then repeat until it becomes stable. It usually settles in 3-4 cycles, depending on how nicely i wrapped the string around the post.

If a string breaks during this process then i know it was a dud string (or the bridge has an issue), because a 2-3 semitone bend should never cause problems.

[eggwheat]

I have no idea on the science, but I would always stretch new strings..I tune up pull the strings up away from the guitar body, retune, do it again until the tuning stops dropping. If I don't do it the string go out of tune very fast which you obviously don't want it a live situation. If I do do it the tuning is basically rock solid. Guitar 101 really?

[mekhem]

I think you do have to stretch the strings a bit - probably a lot less than we assume we have to.

I pull straight up on the strings from around the neck pickup and slide up to the nut. Not pulling up too hard. I do the unwound strings twice and the wound string maybe one more time depending on the strings and that usually does me OK.

From what I understand the process is about 70% getting a little stretch on the string and 30% getting the slack out of the post. Obv. that is different with locking tuners

[Kinx]

It depends on your playing style. if you don't do much boomer bends or don't use much vibrato, you don't have to stretch the strings too much. However, I do employ both a lot - I like to be able to bend high e upwards by a major third and not lose tuning in the process, that means I have to stretch the strings A LOT. Over the years, I figured out myself a routine, where I stretch the bass strings upwards from the fretboard as much as possible, almost to the point of breaking. I stop stretching every string until there is no difference in pitch before/after the stretch. For unwound strings, I rely on bending the strings as much as possible both with my left hand AND the vibrato arm. same thing - do the bending until everything is settled.

I do stretching behind the nut too, since there is always some friction going on. I had the same routine for locking tuners and standard tuners since always, because even though locking tuners do help a little, the stretching is still needed.

[alexpigment]

It depends on your playing style. if you don't do much boomer bends or don't use much vibrato, you don't have to stretch the strings too much. However, I do employ both a lot - I like to be able to bend high e upwards by a major third and not lose tuning in the process, that means I have to stretch the strings A LOT.

The high E string is an interesting case, and barring some other explanation, I think it highlights my suspicion quite well. The high E string doesn't have wraps, so it's not going to be stretching in the sense of the core and wraps moving in relation to each other. Due to its small diameter, it also seems to be the most likely string to slip or reshape its bend on the tuning post, and this is increasingly the case with smaller string gauges. The 'kink' you make as it goes down into a vintage Fender style tuning post always seems a bit malleable, and sometimes it even pulls up a bit from the post hole during those initial wraps. On regular style tuners (e.g. Gibsons), it also slips out of the hole a bit before the first two wraps despite whatever Jedi method I've tried. This is actually the best argument for locking tuners IMHO, though not enough to get me to go to the dark side.

So again, I feel like the reason the high E can go out of tune like this (boomer bends, vibrato, bending behind the nut, etc) has more to do with how stable it is at the tuning post. Moreover, since I personally just press down behind the nut, it seems like it quickly pulls itself to that tightest secure position in 1-2 attempts.