Jaguar Neck Options - Refurbish vs. Replace

[sidglimmer]

Hello All,

My name is Dave and I am new to the Forum from the Philly, PA area. I own a '65 Fender Jaguar that I purchased back in 1975 when I was 15 years old and managed to save up enough money to buy a used Fender. I own other Fender guitars ('71 Strat, '79 Partcaster, '89 Bullet Strat, '95 Tele, '05 KOA Strat & a '20 Broadcaster) but my Jaguar has been part of my daily player for almost 50 years now! No matter which guitar I pick up first I always end up playing the Jaguar. Sadly, after so many years of play it has become quite worn out. There are many reasons why I love the Jaguar but primarily what draws me back all the time is the ease of play with the neck. The feel of the back of the neck and it's super low action makes it such a fun guitar to play! I have only played one other guitar with as nice a neck, in fact it was actually slightly nicer than mine because it was a V-neck profile and that was my uncle's '62 Jazzmaster which was felt like a violin in you hand.

I don't know exactly which neck profile I have but I think it might be a slim U-shape or possibly a modified Vintage-C profile with very small shoulders or sides. I believe it to be a compound neck which measures:
Nut - 1.61
1st Fret - .81
12th Fret - .91

I am interested in either having neck refurbished via the Plek machine (not sure if it can handle bound necks?) and a really good Luthier or replacing the neck with either a parted out vintage '65 Jaguar neck or a NOS '65 Jaguar neck from Fender's mod shop.

Has anyone managed to purchase a NOS Vintage 60's Neck from Fender, specifically their MOD shop where I have seen they stock many vintage style necks from the past for all their future MOD and custom builds? Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[Jaguar018]

I guess first I'd take to a luthier that could asses it; I don't think Plek would solve your issues.

Might want to check out Musikraft necks too.

[andy_tchp]

I am interested in either having neck refurbished via the Plek machine (not sure if it can handle bound necks?) and a really good Luthier or replacing the neck with either a parted out vintage '65 Jaguar neck or a NOS '65 Jaguar neck from Fender's mod shop.

Has anyone managed to purchase a NOS Vintage 60's Neck from Fender, specifically their MOD shop where I have seen they stock many vintage style necks from the past for all their future MOD and custom builds? Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I think you are misunderstanding - those are not NOS vintage necks, they are modern reproductions. Fender do not sell 60 year old parts.

Just get your existing neck refretted by a competent luthier. 'Plek' is just a machine automated levelling/crowning process.

There is absolutely zero need/benefit to replacing it completely and in the current market a refret will still be cheaper.

[øøøøøøø]

Hands down, get the work done on your original neck by an excellent luthier.

In my experience, what you love the most about the feel of your neck won't be replicated very well by a replacement.

There was something about the lacquer on those old Fender necks; it wears down and softens to this velvety texture that I've never experienced anywhere else (even on old guitars of other makes).

Also, the species of rosewood used on the fingerboard is illegal to log, export or import now, so a replacement neck will differ in that not-inconsequential detail.

You very likely need a refret, but this is nothing to be overly afraid of. If taken to a GOOD luthier (really do your homework!) and have fretwire that's close in spec to the original (width and material... nickel only, no stainless) it'll be better than ever when you get it back.

The guitar might sound a little different, and it'll feel considerably different, but in my experience all that you loved about the instrument will remain intact, it'll just get better.

Good luck; that's a great instrument and it's worth spending a little more to get someone *really* good to do the work.

[sidglimmer]

Thanks for the great information and sound advice. I did know that Fender doesn't have a stockpile of NOS vintage necks but didn't know of a better way to Iidentify the stockpile of new vintage necks they have replicated for use on their current and future custom guitar builds.

Has anyone been able to purchase vintage parts from Fender's MOD shop or from another Fender source?

It sounds like you all feel the Plek machine is not a good option for me. After doing some research on the Plek machine's capabilities, I've learned you're right in that it cannot refret an instrument but a luthier utilizing a Plek machine in doing a refret seems like it would provide a far superior refret job than a luthier alone. I will take your advice to have my guitar examined by a Luthier to assess the work needed and formulate a plan.

I've come to learn Fender bound necks and nuts are more difficult to refret and a really good Luthier is most important especially when dealing with bound vintage guitars. Can anyone suggest a really good luthier in the Philadelphia area?

Thanks again for your help, comments and suggestions!

[øøøøøøø]

I don’t have any ideas in the Philly area, but I know a good one in Orangeburg, NY—Alex Glasser at Iron Horse Instruments.

If you don’t want to drive 2 hours to drop a guitar off (and who could blame you) I have little doubt that someone has to be doing really good work in the Philly or south Jersey area

[sidglimmer]

Again, thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

If anyone knows or has an ball park idea of the cost to re-fret/re-furb a '65 Jaguar (bound) neck, please let me know.

BTW, has anyone compared the neck feel and action of a G&L Doheny to a Fender Jaguar or Jazzmaster? If so, please describe.

[øøøøøøø]

Considering the bound neck and the valuable nature of the instrument (very high stakes), I'd expect to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $500-800 for someone truly qualified to work on that caliber of instrument.

Is there a chance you could find someone willing to take it on for less? Absolutely. Is there a chance that person would even do a pretty good job? Yes.

But I think it'd be important to me to find someone who really understands the scope of the job and whose priorities were aligned with mine (as opposed to just looking for the best price).

There are a few things that make old Fender refrets a bit unique, and different people have different (valid) philosophies about the best way to proceed.

One valid course is: "It's your guitar, the original frets are going away because they're worn out. YOLO, you might as well put your favorite fretwire in and make it a joy for you to play."

Another is: "This is a valuable and collectible instrument that's otherwise all-original... let's take extra care to be minimally-invasive, ensure that no irreversible changes to the character of the instrument take place, and aspire to do the job in a way that's indistinguishable from OEM-spec."

It's not all that dissimilar from working on a classic car. Some people want a historically-accurate concours restoration, other people put in disc brakes and power steering. Both courses will seem senseless to someone, but neither is "wrong."

You've just gotta make sure that if you want the "originality-inspired" job that you take it to a luthier who aligns well with that. You can often get a sense of things by looking at documentation of their past jobs on their website or social media profiles.

For a job like this, I'd be willing to ship or drive a bit. It's just too cool of a guitar; too valuable of an instrument to settle for anything less than the best work. There are plenty, plenty of people who can do it and would do a good enough job, it's just a question of whether one of those is close enough to you or you're willing to ship.

[sidglimmer]

Thank you for your meaningful thoughts and advice. You are so right when you equated the position I am in with that of a vintage automobile. There is a wide range of intentions and subsequent outcomes depending on the approach and the quality of the work.

I am 62 years old and for many years I have desired to keep my Jaguar all original less the Fender Schaller tuners I installed when they first came out. I had always planned to hand my prized '65 Jaguar guitar down to my youngest son, Michael who was an excellent guitarist but sadly passed away at the age of 25 right after graduating from Temple University in 2017. It has left me hollow and has changed my perspective on life and moving forward so much that I have to re-think all of my future plans. I am the shell of the man I once was and I no longer care about what things are worth now or what they will be worth in the future like I have all of my life. In regard to my guitar collection which are all in excellent condition because I have rarely caused a scratch to any of them over the past 50+ years. I assumed they would all be handed down to Michael before and now I have to decide what I am going to do with all them along with other various collections of things I have.

My'65 Jaguar has been in my life for almost 50 years now and in the past I would have been most concerned about maintaining it's originality. However, since it is one of the few things that brings joy in my life these days, playability has become more important to me. I would like to have the guitar re-fretted and brought back to it's best possible playing condition.

Does anyone know the actual Neck Shape of the '65 Jaguar? I can't tell if mine is a Slim U-Shape, a Vintage C-Shape, Mid 60's C-Shape, Slim C-Shape, etc.? My best guess is a Slim U-Shape with very little shoulder or sides. It's definitely not a regular U-Shape like I sadly found on the 70th Anniversary Fender Broadcaster I just bought last month. I panic bought it thinking it would have a vintage neck feel. I can't play the damn thing more than 20 minutes because of the neck. It sucks getting old an sometimes it really sucks buying guitars on-line....haha

I really wish I could buy a Fender re-issue, anniversary or quality Offset replacement but from what I can tell so far it seems there isn't any version that has a neck like that on the '65 Jaguar. I'm curious about the G&L Doheney which looks like it has a pretty close vintage style neck but I can't find one locally to try. I tried the ASAT (Squire Like) version of the Doheney and wasn't impressed but it wasn't an American Doheney. You would think the Fender '65 AVRI Jaguar would have as close to the same neck as the original '65 Jaguar but I don't think they are the same. The AVRI '65 neck is identified as a Mid 60's C-shape if memory serves.

Do any of the Fender '62 AVRI Jaguar, '65 AVRI Jaguar, Original 60's Jaguar, Anniversary Jaguar or G&L offset guitars have a neck similar to that of my '65 Fender Jaguar?

Thanks again to everyone!

[sidglimmer]

Hello All,

I found some neck information (below) on the G&L Custom Shop page I thought might come in handy to others interested in guitar neck profiles. I believe their "Heritage ’86" or their "Slim C" Neck profiles to be the closest to my '65 Jaguar. It appears a 7.25 inch radius is available for their Custom Shop guitars. However, unless custom, I believe G&L employs 9.5 and 12 inch radiuses on their production models.
https://glguitars.com/cs-guitar-options/

CUSTOM SHOP NECK PROFILES
Modern Classic 1 11/16” nut width with 1 5/8” string spacing allows a generous edge roll for superb comfort without string fall-off. Fairly slim with mild taper from 0.820” at 1st fret to 0.870” at the 12th fret.
ORDER CODE: MCNK

Slim C 1 5/8” nut width, slight edge roll, mild taper from 0.820” to 0.870”. These specs were part of the #1a neck.
ORDER CODE: 1ANK

Classic Wide C A full 1/8” wider than the Classic C with added string spacing. The extra width is welcome not just for players with big hands, but those who value more string spacing. 1 3/4” nut width, slight edge roll, medium taper from 0.830” to 0.960”. It starts off fairly slim and gets beefier up the neck. These specs were part of the #4 neck.
ORDER CODE: 4NK

Heritage ’86 Faithful to the early G&L years with a 1 5/8” nut width, slight edge roll, and medium taper from 0.790” at 1st fret to a 0.910” at 12th fret. These specs were part of the #1b neck.
ORDER CODE: 1BNK

Modern U Fans of Leo’s early U-shape necks often want a chunk down low but not too much at the top. While some of those early U-shape necks were extremely thick, the Modern U offers a bit more chunk but not too much. 1 5/8” nut width, slight edge roll, mild taper from 0.850” at the 1st fret to 0.910” at the 12th fret. These specs were part of the #1c neck.
ORDER CODE: MUNK

Soft V A gentle V-shape is heaven for some players, and this is one will delight. Mild V-shape down low which fades to almost C-shape up top. 1 5/8” nut width, slight edge roll, mild taper from 0.830” at the 1st fret to 0.960” at the 12th fret. These specs were part of the #2a neck.
ORDER CODE: SVNK

Deep V A more aggressive V-shape for those who can’t get enough V. Pronounced V-shape down low which fades to moderate V-shape up top. 1 5/8” nut width, slight edge roll, mild taper from 0.890” at the 1st fret to 0.930” at the 12th fret. These specs were part of the #1d neck.
ORDER CODE: DVNK
NOTE: * All profiles have a +/- 0.015″ tolerance

NECK RADIUS
7 ½” This is close to the vintage 7 ¼” radius of the ‘50s and ‘60s, and feels virtually the same yet allows guitarists just a bit more note bending before a note will “choke” or “fret out”.
ORDER CODE: R75

9 ½” A nice mid-way point between the vintage radius and a modern 12” radius. Standard on most guitar models.
ORDER CODE: R95

12” Flatter for deep string bends and greater ease when soloing.
ORDER CODE: R12

[andy_tchp]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I don't think there was any standard shape back in the 1960s like there is now. Things were a lot more hand-finished (and thus inconsistent) back then.

I doubt there's a 'consensus' on these things but I'd suggest a quality refret of your '65 doesn't devalue the instrument in any significant way, nor really detract from its 'originality' anyway.

Hopefully someone can chime in on the best person to take it to to get the work done.

[øøøøøøø]

I’m really, really sorry to hear that you lost your son

There were really four neck dimension designations I know of at Fender back then: A, B, C and D. These referred to nut width, primarily (but this had knock-on effects in the other dimensions)

A was the skinniest, B was the most common *by far*, and the other two were progressively wider at the nut.

B was kind of the “standard” and all others were kind of “custom order.” Others can correct me if I’m mistaken on any detail.

The actual profile of the necks changed a *lot* over the years (and even from worker to worker)… both in size and shape, regardless of the nut width.

Some Fender obsessives even have their favorite Fender employee neck shaper… Tadeo Gomez in the 1950s is probably the most famous (people actually pay a premium for a “TG” initialed neck!)

If you take the neck off, the last letter of the ink stamp on the neck heel is the width. I’d bet folding money it’s “B”

If you love the neck, get it refretted in your favorite fretwire spec. Once you find a good luthier, consult with them. They should be able to help you pick a good one.

Since historical accuracy is a secondary concern for you at best, that makes the pool of candidates much wider. Lots of people can stick some frets in a neck and make it play great! Fewer can do it so that it looks and feels completely original

[JSett]

Many of us own, or have owned, current production and vintage versions of these guitars and I think we'd all be in agreement that you'll definitely not be happy swapping the neck. It'll feel alien and will change the fundamental character of the guitar you likely know inside-out after all these years. In the last year I have owned 3 vintage Jaguars (a 64 and two 65's) and all three necks were very different in shape and feel. I also owned a 90s reissue that was totally different as well

100% I agree you should find someone to do a quality refret on the existing neck. Some nice vintage-sized wire will reinvigorate the playability. I feel all your research and searching for neck profiles will disappoint you if you settle on one...there's just no substitute for an old, played-in neck that your hand recognises.

[DeathJag]

Wow. I am so saddened to read about your tragedy. Wow. I'm impressed at your attitude, it makes your post so much more meaningful and honest. I am choked up at work here man. I can't imagine the feelings. I wish you lived near me so we could jam.

I am the incredibly lucky fella who scored one of Johnny's '65 jags, and nothing compares to its neck. Holy shit. It is in a class of its own. I have a 2003 avri jag and the neck is fatter. I think a quality refret is the way to go.

[sal paradise]

Are there any Philly members here who can help with recommendations for vintage luthiers ?

A quick Google & there a few people mentioning Mike viork at bordentown guitar rescue for vintage refretting. Might be worth asking him.

I’m really sorry about your loss. You deserve to get that guitar back to its best & enjoy every second of it.