Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

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mekhem
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Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by mekhem » Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:23 am

So - weird question:

I have a jazzmaster where I like the set up with 1 exception - the low E and A strings are vibrating onto the screw heads on the trem plate. Where can I get trem screws that have a flat, or smaller, head? Is there a drop in replacement without having to route a counter sink into the trem plate?

This is the first time I have run into this - and tbh - I like the set up. I know that I could adjust via a shim and increase the break angle coming off the back of the bridge but as mentioned I would prefer not to adjust the play ability as it is - just get rid of that buzz.

I am referring to the 3 screws in front of the string plate in case I am not being clear.

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andy_tchp
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by andy_tchp » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:26 pm

I'm not aware of them being available with flattened heads aside from the old vintage type that Fender themselves used.

I took a file and gently flattened mine when I found myself in your position. There is plenty of depth to the engagement point of the fastener so you can flatten the dome a fair bit but still keep them fully functional.


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andy_tchp
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by andy_tchp » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:28 pm

Wait, now I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing - How is the A string having any involvement with these?
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Nico
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by Nico » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:38 pm

The easy fix is to remove the trem, remove the 3 "plate" screws and rescrew from underneath (so the screw heads will be hidden in the trem cavity. I never did it, but i've heard it works nicely. No harm trying, you don't modify anything that way.

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by JSett » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:51 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:28 pm
Wait, now I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing - How is the A string having any involvement with these?
This was also my 1st thought. The A string should be fine.

FWIW, I have ground down some of mine in the past and it solved the issue.
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mekhem
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by mekhem » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:36 am

Sorry - Thee issue with the A string is a vibey saddle....


And thanks - Ill file down the screw head a bit next time i change the strings.

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hexes
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by hexes » Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:27 am

mekhem wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:36 am
Sorry - Thee issue with the A string is a vibey saddle....


And thanks - Ill file down the screw head a bit next time i change the strings.
the less destructive option mentioned above to flip that screw upside down first to see if that fixes your issue might be a better fix.

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by GuitarsnGravel » Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:04 pm

Why not take a screw out, go to your local hardware store and find a flat head machine screw replacement?

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mekhem
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by mekhem » Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:30 am

GuitarsnGravel wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:04 pm
Why not take a screw out, go to your local hardware store and find a flat head machine screw replacement?
I was think about looking at flat heads - but wouldn't that require countersink on the plate? I know just enough about hardware to be dangerous.

FMIC assets diagram - SCREW M 8-32 X 1/4

so a flat head machine screw 8-32 1/4?

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:39 pm

I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested, but there is one simple trick that solves nearly every single problem that is endemic to Jazzmasters and Jaguars, from tuning stability, to bridge buzzing, to high action, to low sustain and even, yes even strings rubbing on the tailpiece pivot screws: <drum roll>


Here it is: shim your neck!

that is all.

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by GuitarsnGravel » Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:27 pm

mekhem wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:30 am
GuitarsnGravel wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:04 pm
Why not take a screw out, go to your local hardware store and find a flat head machine screw replacement?
I was think about looking at flat heads - but wouldn't that require countersink on the plate? I know just enough about hardware to be dangerous.

FMIC assets diagram - SCREW M 8-32 X 1/4

so a flat head machine screw 8-32 1/4?
I don't know the size, but if 8-32 1/4" is what is listed, there should be a wide variety to choose from.
I'd just take a bolt down to ACE hardware or equivalent and find one with a shallower head by a simple visual comparison. Furniture bolts are varied and may have the correct size.

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by timtam » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:21 pm

8-32 1/4" flat head options on ebay ...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=s ... 1%2F4+flat

As noted, they may require counter-sinking the trem plate in order for the flat heads to clear the strings.

BTW the individual screw types for the AVRI trem are listed in the Am Original parts PDF (and probably others but I didn't check) ...
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... 6-2017.pdf

And as Lost In Autumn implies, if the problem is a too-low string break angle over a too-low bridge - leading to the strings failing to clear the trem screws - adding a tapered neck pocket shim should also fix the issue.

Finally, those screws have been moved away from the strings on the new Panorama trem.
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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by mekhem » Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:58 am

Thanks - I may hit the local HW store today and check some options.

Also - Yes I have a couple of the stewmac shims coming - actually should have been here yesterday - and I do get the neck angle > bridge height > tail piece triangle but my concern is that when you shim and reset up - it does affect play feel. As It is set up now - play feel is excellent and trem operation and rocking bridge operation are fine. So I may be a little too gun shy about changing that*.

In any event - I wont make major changes until I play out the strings. its just weird to me that that this is the first time i have run into this particular issue considering the number of JM's/Jags I have cycled through, some of which I will swear have a shallower break angle.

Also - Does Stewmac feel guilty about charging 11 bucks for these shims?

* I had a 65 Thin Skin JM that I could never set up right. It came with an OK set up but in the process of shimming and moving to Staytrem bridge I could never get that guitar into the sweet spot. I tried starting from scratch, a Mastery for a short time, 11-52 to 9-42 gauges, no shim, 1 business card, 2 business cards, taking it to a shop where I knew the tech knows how to set up Offsets - but it always seemed like i was fighting that thing. I am defiantly better are set ups now than I was then but I still remember what a fight that was

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by GuitarsnGravel » Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:40 am

mekhem wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:58 am
I do get the neck angle > bridge height > tail piece triangle but my concern is that when you shim and reset up - it does affect play feel. As It is set up now - play feel is excellent and trem operation and rocking bridge operation are fine. So I may be a little too gun shy about changing that*.

Also - Does Stewmac feel guilty about charging 11 bucks for these shims?

* I had a 65 Thin Skin JM that I could never set up right. It came with an OK set up but in the process of shimming and moving to Staytrem bridge I could never get that guitar into the sweet spot.
I fought the need to shim the neck on my latest build. I ended up doing it, it did have an effect on the way it played, but it was minimal and could be down to the increased break angle. Guitars can be weird at times. I still battle popping the high 'E' out when I use my fingers, training to be pick only on that guitar. Shimming is easily reversible if you don't like the result.

I imagine making the StewMac shims must be a PITA. Worth the $, imo.

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Re: Trem Unit Screws - String rubbing

Post by Horsefeather » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:50 pm

One detail I'll add is that when substituting flathead screws, you get limited improvement due to the fact that the necessary countersink for a flush fit extends well into the fulcrum piece below the plate. As this piece is hardened, it doesn't submit to such tomfoolery. If you have something stronger than a typical countersink it might work but otherwise your screws will sit a bit proud.

It's an improvement over the stock ones but only by a little bit. But you could then file them a little to gain more clearance if you need it.

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