Strings that "fret sharp"

[akpasta]

Hey all,

For the most part I do my own setup on guitars and I'd like to better understand the variables that affect a particularly frustrating one, strings that go sharp when they are fretted. In this case, your intonation is perfect in the open position and the 12th fret, your action is comfortably low producing both a strong tone (no buzzing) and playing comfort, but when you fret certain strings they go sharp.

My understanding is this can occur if your action is to high, either the nut slots are too tall, the neck has too much relief, or the bridge is set too high. But when these things approach their lowest tolerance-- as low as they can go before causing fret buzzing-- what else can be done?

One thing I've tried is thicker strings, which are harder to "bend" when fretting and therefore bend less and do not go as sharp. They also have less room to travel before bottoming out on the fretboard-- particularly with heavier strings like the low E and A. Of course there's a limit to how heavy you can go.

So, once you've taken nut, truss, bridge, and string gauge into consideration, but you still have one or two offending strings, what's left? The only other thing I can consider, is fret height. The taller the fret, the more opportunity to bend the strings. Ever noticed vintage rickenbackers have very short frets that are almost flat at the crown? The ONE guitar I have that seems to always play in tune everywhere on the neck, and even with the pressure of a capo is an early 80s Rick, with very short frets. On the other hand, I have a late 90s Rick and the Fender Alt Reality XII and they both have much taller frets and tend to fret sharp. Is this "a thing" with tall frets? I've rarely heard or read it discussed. Would this be a thing to fix? How does one fix this by hand without the use of a plek or something?

I'm curious to hear what other people have done to solve this issue!

Thanks!

[JSett]

Tall frets, thin strings and a heavy touch will result in sharp notes. It's much easier to bend a note sharp just by finger-pressure if you're using skinny strings. Short frets must means your finger bottoms out sooner.

If you have Jumbo or tall frets, and a heavy touch, you need to use heavier strings. Or learn to play with a lighter touch.

[Telliot]

This is one of things I love about vintage sized frets. I don’t understand the fascination with tall frets (or scalloped fingerboards. Is that still a thing?).

[marqueemoon]

This is a major peeve for me, and yeah the main reason I can’t do jumbo frets. I’m better than I used to be, but I still fret like a gorilla. For overall playability and sound I like 11s on all electrics anyway, but the pulling sharp thing is definitely worse for me with lighter strings.

My fretting hand has gotten a little creaky over the years and when I get a new guitar (invariably set up with 10s) I always think “I should try to adjust to this and lighten my touch.”. Never works for me, even with non-huge frets and action totally dialed.

My one tip in this area is this. If your nut slots and overall action are good make sure your intonation dialed as best you can in the *playing position*.

[alexpigment]

I also notice this more when the radius is really flat (12" or flatter). Something about that causes me to overcompensate with barre chords for example, and I think the underside of my knuckles push the strings down further. With a more curved radius, I think my finger pressure among the strings is lighter and more balanced. I could never get my 72 Tele Deluxe reissue to sound in tune, and it took me years to figure out the 12" radius was the culprit. I've also never had luck sounding acceptably in tune on a Les Paul, though that may be because Les Pauls don't stay in tune anyway

Another thing to look out for is uneven wear on frets. My first Squier J Mascis JM came from a trade, and I remember thinking that all my cowboy chords sounded off when I first got it. It turns out there was some wear under the b-string on the first few frets that wasn't present under the other strings. In my years of experience, I had never encountered such localized fret wear and didn't know a) how to look for it, or b) how it causes more tuning issues than overall fretwear.

[bjornsynneby]

Nut height affects this problem.

[øøøøøøø]

something thing to consider: it’s possible to play a perfectly-set-up instrument out of tune.

Guitarists talk about this less than woodwind, brass and string players, but it’s no less true on our instrument—proper intonation isn’t a setting. It’s a skill.

[SignoftheDragon]

There are people who have tried to address this phenomenon from a hardware standpoint-

The 'Buzz Feiten Tuning System' was a bit of a thing for a while in the 90's, and I know Music Man/Ernie Ball guitars sometimes come with a 'compensated' nut to achieve similar results. Here's a pic of both examples:


EBMM nuts at the back, Buzz Feiten nut blanks up front.

Does it work? I've never had the chance to play one.

(I've never had the itch to seek one out, either- my guitars all seem to intonate well enough)