Jagmaster bridge floating too high

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tjdracz
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Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by tjdracz » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:08 am

Hey all! Decided to dust off a Jagmaster (MIC 24" neck one) that belonged to my wife. I've put a new set of strings, D'Addario 10-46s, tune up... and the strat style bridge floated waaaay to high, to the point of trem bar nearly hitting the volume knob.

Opened it up and it had 3 springs in trem cavity. I've tried tightening the 2 trem plate back screws but was unable to get good results. Added 4th spring and it just about made the float bearable. It's OK-ish now but truthfully, I've half expected being able to deck the trem with 4 springs and set of 10s but that seems to be a no go.

Comparing this to my Strat where I can get away with decking it with 3 springs on set of 10s this feels bit weird.

Ultimately got to the point where with 4 springs and back trem plate screws fair way in its got a reasonable float, but it means the trem action is bit stiff. Feeling there's something wrong but running out of ideas. What else can be causing 4 springs not being able to counteract the tension of 10s strings?

Some pics below showing the current state of play
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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by HNB » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:15 am

Might need new springs that are a bit stiffer to do the three spring float. :)
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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by tjdracz » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:17 am

HNB wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:15 am
Might need new springs that are a bit stiffer to do the three spring float. :)
That might be the next step, generally would look at the springs last and something else being wrong but just maybe they're bit dud and no good for the tension!

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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by tjdracz » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:48 am

Also just realised that the neck is shimmed, could that be a suspect? 🤔

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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by timtam » Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:06 pm

Springs have two roles in a strat-style trem:
(1) to balance the torque (rotational force) of the strings attempting to rotate the bridge the other way (upwards, around the knife edge axis). Higher gauge strings have higher tension, so will generate more upward torque; so more torque will be required from the springs.
(2) to give trem arm movements a desired stiffness/feel.

Your control over these two functions is achieved in different ways. For (1), for a given set of strings/number of springs, you screw the claw in or out until the bridge is floating at the height you want (or decked if that's what you want). That of course is a little more complicated than it sounds. Frudua's method is the simplest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUkKZy8U_gA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7luUzgDwwcs
Adding or removing springs is rarely necessary in this process, unless you have screwed the claw in all the way (or all the way out), and still can't get the bridge in the floating position. If you've followed a Frudua-like approach and the bridge is still floating too high with your 4 springs (and the claw all the way in), and you want to keep your 10-46 strings, then the best option is to add a 5th spring of the same type (or you could swap to 4 stiffer springs*, which will reach the necessary spring tension for floating with less claw screw-in).

Alterations in (2), the stiffness/feel, are most readily achieved by adding/subtracting springs of the same type. The stiffness of a spring is due to its spring constant*. Spring contants are additive - that is, all you usually need to do to make your trem stiffer is to add spring(s); and all you usually need to make your trem less stiff is to subtract spring(s). Trem spring vendors offering "vintage" or other "special" springs are snake oil salesmen. Of course once you alter trem stiffness in this way you need to re-adjust the floating position back to where it was, according to (1).

* annoyingly no trem spring vendors specify their spring constants (stiffness). So most people don't know the stiffness of the springs they have, nor if any vendors' products are more or less stiff. Some vendors like Guitarfetish at least sell a range of stiffnesses (eg "strong", "medium", "soft"; meaning high/medium/low spring constant).
https://www.guitarfetish.com/Fits-Stratreg_c_709.html
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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by Lost In Autumn » Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:39 am

tjdracz wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:48 am
Also just realised that the neck is shimmed, could that be a suspect? 🤔
my last Jagmaster required a reverse shim to get everything set, but assuming your action is ok when the tremolo is decked, I would recommend screwing in the claw to get the tremolo where you want it, rather than adding a 4th string.

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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by tjdracz » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:09 am

Lost In Autumn wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:39 am
tjdracz wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:48 am
Also just realised that the neck is shimmed, could that be a suspect? 🤔
my last Jagmaster required a reverse shim to get everything set, but assuming your action is ok when the tremolo is decked, I would recommend screwing in the claw to get the tremolo where you want it, rather than adding a 4th string.
Alas, that's the problem, with 3 springs and claw fully screwed in I'm still too high end nowhere near decked. Just got some replacement springs so will give them a go and see if they make any difference!

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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by tjdracz » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:25 am

Ok, new springs did nothing. I wonder however if the trem claw screw holes are simply not drilled long enough. Technically I'm left with bit of a room between cavity end and claw but the springs simply won't go any further. Oh well, 4 springs it is!

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Re: Jagmaster bridge floating too high

Post by Lost In Autumn » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:38 am

tjdracz wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:25 am
Ok, new springs did nothing. I wonder however if the trem claw screw holes are simply not drilled long enough. Technically I'm left with bit of a room between cavity end and claw but the springs simply won't go any further. Oh well, 4 springs it is!
Your photo shows that it’s not in all the way by a good margin. I’d recommend getting a 6” long, 1/8” diameter bit and drilling the hole a little deeper.

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