A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

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neutralomen
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A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:04 pm

In celebration of the Jag-Stang Reissue, I'm here to offer a cool tip I learned from a luthier years ago.

If you want to "hardtail" your jag-stang or mustang, it usually involves physically altering or blocking the mechanisms under the plate. While these mods aren't too invasive, you don't have the option to reverse it without modifying it back to normal.

I have a method that, in my experience, works consistently, and doesn't require any mods.

This only works if your goal is to achieve a non-vibrato jag-stang(or mustang). There is a whole different technique to keep it in tune mod-free for vibrato. Unfortunately, due to the design of this vibrato, the bridge rocking makes it very hard to get the vibrato stable(although you can get it PRETTY good). This non-vibrato method is more stable. Try it out and let me know in this thread if it worked for you!

As we all know, if you tune to pitch on a jag-stang or mustang, and try to play it like a tele, the minute you start doing heavy bending, it goes out of tune. Then you wind up chasing your tail re-tuning and re-tuning. this is why I think most people just block the bridge and forget about it.

The reason for the tail chasing is, the springs are continually trying to reach an equilibrium with the strings, and when you correct one, it throws three others out of whack.

The solution is what I call the "cigar tug" method. The idea is to create equilibrium between the strings and springs and stabilize it by putting maximum tension on the spring by "tugging" it as sharp as it can, all the while making micro-adjustments to the tuning pegs. If all goes to plan, it stays very stable even during aggressive bends, and even if a bend throws it out of tune, just "tug" the cigar, and it'll immediately throw it back into tune! It really works!

1. tune to pitch.
2. Start on the high E, and pluck.
3.grab the cigar tailpiece with four fingersImage
4. give it a nice firm "tug tug tug" sharp, down towards the butt.
5. tune the high E
6.tug tug again
7.keep tuning until the E is perfectly in tune AFTER the tug.
8. repeat this process up and down on all the strings. It may take a while, as long as half an hour, to finish.

you know you're done when all six strings are perfectly in tune *after* a firm "tug tug tug."

Once you resume playing, you'll notice the guitar stays in tune even when bending strings. You'll also notice that, in extreme bending and crazy stuff, if you just "tug tug" the cigar, it throws everything back into tune.

I hope this works for everyone as much as it has for me. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes!

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by Fiddy » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:05 am

Mustangs are my favorite guitars. I don't use a trem much, but I do bend strings. Don't really have an issue with strings going out of tune. Is this something that only happens when using the trem?

I don't feel like I've experienced this going out of tune issue with my guitars set up in stock form.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:04 am

I think YMMV mustang to mustang, but there are a lot of small things that contribute to tuning stability in this particular vibrato design.

On a strat style, you only have to worry about balancing the fulcrum point at one spot, which is where the bridge plate pivots on the screws. Once the springs ans strings are at equilibrium, you just wiggle the bar and tune, wiggle the bar and tune, etc. So when you wiggle the bar, the guitar goes back in tune, assuming your nut is lubricated etc

On a dynamic vibrato, there is the equilibrium of the spring but also the rocking bridge. That's two points of equilibrium and two opportunities to kind of "get stuck" or not return automatically to the neutral poition. In my experience, some mustangs have been better at "returning to the equilibrium point" than others. On some, after you wiggle the bar, the bridge Ricks back into place but doesn't quote get back to the neutral point, and the whole guitar is out of tune. Usually just wiggling once or twice more will fix this but still it isn't ideal.

When it comes to bending, if your spring is not carefully in equilibrium, it pulls the rocking bridge out of position in the other direction, pulling everything sharp.

The method above basically gets the spring as taught as possible while the guitar is in tune this prevents the equilibrium point from shifting around after heavy bending because tension on the springs are so high.

I'm glad to know you haven't had tuning problems on this technology but I certainly have and I understand this to he a relatively widespread issue on mustang bridges.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by HNB » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:37 am

I normally use the same process to stabilize all trems. I tune it, exaggeratedly move the tremolo, retune, exaggeratedly move the tremolo, retune, until it stays in tune. Can take four or five rounds of abuse and check to get stable. One stable, it normally stays in tune fine.
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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:29 am

HNB wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:37 am
I normally use the same process to stabilize all trems. I tune it, exaggeratedly move the tremolo, retune, exaggeratedly move the tremolo, retune, until it stays in tune. Can take four or five rounds of abuse and check to get stable. One stable, it normally stays in tune fine.
Yes exactly but there are two mehtodw. One for trem and one for "hard tailing." Pullung everything as sharp as possible and reaching equilibrium point there is for hard tailing because then when you bend the spring has nowhere to settle to but its max tightness.

Setting it up for a float involves wiggling instead of tugging. This way the spring is in equilibrium on a fulcrum such that both flattening and sharpening the notes return it to the middle. The downside to this is in non locking systems, bending strings can throw the equilibrium off a bit but then just wiggle and it goes back in tune.

The point of this post was, mustang style trems don't float very well because of the spring fulcrum and the rocking bridge. The cigar tug method is great for hard tailers who don't want to modify their instrument.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by HNB » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:32 pm

That can work, but I set up my mustangs and jagstangs with the tube vertically centered and wiggly them forward and back until it stays in tune.
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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:30 pm

HNB wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:32 pm
That can work, but I set up my mustangs and jagstangs with the tube vertically centered and wiggly them forward and back until it stays in tune.
yes that method works IF you're going to use the vibrato. Problem is, as I said earlier, the "wiggle method" works great on a strat as long as you lubricate the nut and saddle. You have one fulcrum to worry about. The spring and the string needs to just float at an equilibrium point. In theory this is also true for mustangs but because you have the rocking bridge which is ONE fulcrum, and the cigar which is a second fulcrum, it less reliably returns to center after every wiggle(depending on your luck. I understand some mustangs are just more stable than others). So this "cigar tug" method is for those who want to turn it into a kind of "tele" WITHOUT having to modify it with a block. The spring is so maxed out under the plate it kind of mimics a hard-tail. Not totally but it comes pretty dang close.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by andy_tchp » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:12 pm

Never had any issues with tuning stability on my Mustang as long as the springs were on the notches for highest tension and the cigar tube was adjusted to it's lowest point. Could dive bomb stupidly and it'd return to pitch as well as/better than my Jaguar/Jazzmasters.

If you're not using the vibrato just screw the cigar down as tight as you can ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by Fiddy » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:26 pm

I think the issue is that the op is trying to turn the mustang into a Tele and not enjoying it for what it is.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:35 pm

that is not the case. I have a mustang that is set up for a float and this jag-stang is set up as a hard tail. They invite different playing styles and this post was advice on how to do the "hard tail" on a mustang style trem without modifications

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by Fiddy » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:17 pm

I thought this thread was about "A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!"

As in without these changes that would be an impossible feat kinda deal..

And if so, what I'm saying is I keep mine in tune with no issues, but in my case, I truly achieve it 100% mod free.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:11 am

if you just tune that vibrato system to pitch and play, and do a lot of heavy bending, the odds of it returning to pitch are very low so either you don't bend very much, or if you do, not aggressively, or you're a very lucky guy.

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by andy_tchp » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:46 am

neutralomen wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:11 am
if you just tune that vibrato system to pitch and play, and do a lot of heavy bending, the odds of it returning to pitch are very low so either you don't bend very much, or if you do, not aggressively, or you're a very lucky guy.
Hmm, I’m not sure it’s luck. From memory I got setup tips from someone on here to move the springs to the highest tension notches (what a shit of a job that is) and tighten the cigar tube right down.

Having said that, prior to doing all of the above the tuning stability on that guitar (MG65 Mustang) was extremely poor. Even a subtle warble from the vibrato would have most strings returning out of tune simultaneously…
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by Fiddy » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:59 am

This is what I do, with all my guitars... I tune to pitch, bend the strings, then tune again bend some more, then tune again, bend again, and after a few times, the strings i guess just settle? Not sure that's the correct term.

I don't use the vibrato much if at all, but I do bend strings. Im not afraid of playing lead guitar, strumming alone is just boring to me.

But over the last 15 years, i would say ive always had at least one Mustang around..

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Re: A mod-free way to keep your Jag-Stang in tune!

Post by neutralomen » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:35 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:46 am
neutralomen wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:11 am
if you just tune that vibrato system to pitch and play, and do a lot of heavy bending, the odds of it returning to pitch are very low so either you don't bend very much, or if you do, not aggressively, or you're a very lucky guy.
Hmm, I’m not sure it’s luck. From memory I got setup tips from someone on here to move the springs to the highest tension notches (what a shit of a job that is) and tighten the cigar tube right down.

Having said that, prior to doing all of the above the tuning stability on that guitar (MG65 Mustang) was extremely poor. Even a subtle warble from the vibrato would have most strings returning out of tune simultaneously…
Well that's because, as I said numerous times now, this advice is for those who DON't want to use the tremolo arm. Setting up the springs "sharp" like this allow for bending but NOT vibrato. If you want to use the tremolo arm you have to use a totally different method, the "wiggle method."

In other words, the "cigar tug" method is stable for bending if you want it to behave like a hard tail, but the downside is you CANT use the tremolo arm.

the "wiggle" method, as described by some other posters, is how you get equilibrium for use with the trem. The downside to this is, sometimes aggressive bending will not return the guitar to pitch, so you need to "wiggle" the bar to get the spring back into equilibrium. This is also true on strats but it's more of a problem on Mustangs because a mustang has two fulcrums.

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