What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

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Lost In Autumn
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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:46 am

this thread sent me into the rabbit hole that is the Kinman website. Holy crap, what a shitshow! if the marketing copy wasn't off-putting enough, the website layout would set me off and between the hyperbole and poor descriptions, I have no Idea what they're selling, other than they're "Amazing." Frankly, I find it worse than Curtis Novak's website, with almost zero descriptions. Further, several of his pickups seem to be direct rip-offs of Lindy Fralin pickups, with a few minor changes so that they can call them their own. I don't care how great they may be, I'll stick with Fralins and Novaks.

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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:59 am

Lost In Autumn wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:46 am
Further, several of his pickups seem to be direct rip-offs of Lindy Fralin pickups, with a few minor changes so that they can call them their own. I don't care how great they may be, I'll stick with Fralins and Novaks.
That's not what they are, they are very much their own design, and as someone who owns Lindy Fralin noiseless and Kinman pickups, I can tell you that it would be a mistake to write Kinman off. Kinman is steps beyond where Fralin is.

You see all that text on Kinman's site where he congratulates himself on how great his products are?

Well, it's accurate!
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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:04 am

I can’t speak to his other products, but is P90-Bucker and Twang-Bucker are nearly direct copies of Fralin’s P92 and Twang-Master pickups.

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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:27 am

Beats me... I looked into the products you mention by both builders, and aren't directly familiar with them.

Also I hate to come off like an evangelist for a man who is his own evangelist very strongly, but if you look here you'll see Kinman talk about how many parts there are in his pickups:

https://kinman.com/model-products.php?p ... %20Pickups

I don't pretend to know what those parts are doing, my only point is that his pickups are very elaborate. One of those Kinmans you sent seem to be his P90 Sweet Neck in a PAF factor, if that's correct, then it will not be similar to what Fralin makes under the hood, even if they appear so from pictures.

It can be hard to separate Kinman's product from the hype, for instance, he talks about using proprietary magnets in his pickups and while I believe him, I can't really evaluate that claim very well. And him wanting to keep his process as secret as he can doesn't make it easier for me to talk about this, but I certainly don't feel that he needs to be stealing other people's designs, let's just put it that way.

Like them or not, the man genuinely has designed original pickups. As I say, I was skeptical, that website doesn't make it easy to have as much confidence as he seems to think it would, at the end of the day, though, the pickups just are what he says they are.
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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:11 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:27 am
Beats me... I looked into the products you mention by both builders, and aren't directly familiar with them.

Also I hate to come off like an evangelist for a man who is his own evangelist very strongly, but if you look here you'll see Kinman talk about how many parts there are in his pickups:

https://kinman.com/model-products.php?p ... %20Pickups

I don't pretend to know what those parts are doing, my only point is that his pickups are very elaborate. One of those Kinmans you sent seem to be his P90 Sweet Neck in a PAF factor, if that's correct, then it will not be similar to what Fralin makes under the hood, even if they appear so from pictures.

It can be hard to separate Kinman's product from the hype, for instance, he talks about using proprietary magnets in his pickups and while I believe him, I can't really evaluate that claim very well. And him wanting to keep his process as secret as he can doesn't make it easier for me to talk about this, but I certainly don't feel that he needs to be stealing other people's designs, let's just put it that way.

Like them or not, the man genuinely has designed original pickups. As I say, I was skeptical, that website doesn't make it easy to have as much confidence as he seems to think it would, at the end of the day, though, the pickups just are what he says they are.
I think what’s equally troubling for me is that his copy goes well past hyperbole into flat-out narcissistic self promotion. I’ll admit that it’s a trigger for me and as much my issue in response as it is his in action. I find it more than a little off putting and can neither take it seriously or engage with it. I worked in marketing for a decade- it’s possible to write about your groundbreaking technological advances with out hyperbolic chest beating; for me, it’s very hard to take without a negative reaction, no matter how good his product may be.

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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 am

Sure, I get you. I'm not trying to sell you on the product or anything, and frankly the amateurish way that website is put together is really astounding. It's 2021, it's an online buying world, and you have to know what your core competencies are and if they do not include website management then don't try and do it yourself.

I was only pointing out that for all the flaws, it's very clear that the man has developed his own pickups, there's no doubt about that.
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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by Embenny » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:52 am

Of all the things you can accuse Kinman of, being a copycat isn't one of them. What about those humbuckers is a copy of Fralin besides having 3x3 polepieces (which was done first by Leo Fender and Seth Lover)?

His pickup internals are probably the most unique of any builder, up there with Lace and the Fishman Fluence line. Even those pickups you mentioned are not Fender XII bobbins in a PAF case, which is basically what Fralin's Twangmasters are.

The man's clearly a bit of a crackpot, but he's a unique crackpot and his pickups are superlative. That's no slam against Lindy, whose pickups I also own. Great pickups and a great guy to deal with, too, but he doesn't offer any direct competition to 99% of Kinman's line because his noiseless P90/JM pickups are sidewinders and his noiseless tele/strat pickups are soft-core steel split blades with bar magnets. They're clever implementations of much more basic approaches to noise cancelation and don't sound the same.
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Re: What’s a good noiseless option if I like the V-Mod II pickups?

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:02 pm

As far as I can tell, Fralin's (still very good!) designs are pretty typical humbucking dual or stacked coil designs. Kinmans are much more complex.

And yeah, he's a crackpot and his website is dumb, and his ranting ad copy is a turn off - I felt that way for a long time until I tried his pickups. They are really really excellent.

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