Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

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GoldenHeart
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Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by GoldenHeart » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:33 am

Hello! I am new to this forum and fairly new to Jazzmasters.
I recently got a Vintera which I've been trying to set up to my liking but keep running into tuning problems.

Staytrem bridge fitted with it always sitting in the centre of the thimbles for rocking on vibrato-use.
0.50 degree Stewmac shim inserted.
Strung with gauge 10s.
Action at the 12th fret is 0.060 on the bass and 0.050 on the treble.
Relief at the 8th fret is 0.006.

So at the current bridge height, the guitar sounds and feels great with a lot more sustain.
However, with vibrato-use, the strings always go flat (particularly the two e strings).

From what I can see, the bridge height has caused the two e strings to touch the back of the bridge behind the saddles, creating new (very slight) break angles. Also, the low E string is touching the screwhead of the tailpiece at the ball end if that matters.

Without a shim, I get buzzing from the saddles where there isn't enough downward force. I guess I could try a 0.25 degree one.

Am I doing something wrong?
Any advice is appreciated.

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timtam
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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by timtam » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:18 am

Your bridge height looks reasonable. But it obviously doesn't "work" for you. Strings shouldn't touch the bridge plate back edge. Your action is quite low, so your only way to go would be up, but raising the bridge to increase action would also increase string break angle, making contact more rather than less likely.

With the traditional vintage-style bridge, it's often a bit of dance to get the height adjustment on bridge and saddles right for string clearance. With the Mustang-style Staytrem, you don't have the option to play with saddle height. So the string clearance over the back edge of the bridge plate is all down to the bridge height and intonation position of the saddles (assuming traditional trem position).

So in essence you are seemingly in a 'blind spot' for a Mustang-style bridge. Where the available adjustments can't obviously get you out of trouble.

I think your options are indeed the smaller 0.25 deg shim to lower the bridge a tad, and the string break angle with it. Or trying to go back to the stock traditional-style bridge, to give you control over saddle height to get more clearance. Or Warmoth sells the Modified Mustang bridge with height-adjustable saddles. Fender makes something similar but with smaller barrels - basically the traditional bridge with smooth barrels and height adjustment.

As usual, it is important to check the nut for binding, in case that's contributing to your tuning issues. And ensuring that your trem screw compression is set to approx neutral. And never lubricate the string-saddle contacts on a rocking bridge.
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Last edited by timtam on Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrJagsquire
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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by MrJagsquire » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:37 am

I have a Staytrem on my Jaguar. I just checked and the strings all clear the back of the bridge: I know it's a different guitar, but same trem and same bridge as yours. I don't know why you need a shim at all though? I don't have one on mine and can get the action set nicely (similar readings to yours). I'd try taking the shim out, set the action again and see how it goes.

Also I'd second the comment above that it's likely to be the nut: Mine was a bit rough and not cut properly/deep enough, but it's a standard procedure I make on any 'new' guitar to me: I cut them a bit deeper, sanded the top of it (so the strings aren't buried in the slots, which also causes tuning issues, especially with the trem/big bends), no problems with tuning at all now and not any need for 'nut sauce' or the like.

To be fair I don't use the trem, but I do plenty of big bends.

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bjornsynneby
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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by bjornsynneby » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:55 am

Ahh Jazzmasters… you got to love the setup process in order to play them. My Staytrem isn’t that high with a 0,5 shim but this is a Vintera. Your bridge is high but that is good since your breakangle is larger and that gives better tone. Timtam pretty much sums it up here. You can gently file the backside of the staytrem perhaps… anyway the large three screws on the tremolo can be put in from the back side. That way the strings will not touch the screws.

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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by ChrisDesign » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:00 am

Simple answer, you’re shim is too high. Get a 0.25 shim to replace your 0.5 shim. £15 on eBay for a Stew Mac full pocket shim and the job is done. Simple.

Also, check your vibrato is adjusted right. If you can engage the lock ok but cannot pull up 1mm then you’re good to go.
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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by jorri » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:09 pm

Its on the high end. I mean without individual height adjust maybe we can say its too high when the string tough the back??
And action is very low.
Plus it could be tilted forward (or just photo angle?) Which prevents the proper rocking with the trem so may cause tuning issues, and the strings on the back.

High bridge ime tend to be more likely to end up uncentred sometimes.

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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:45 pm

IMO 6 thousandths is not enough relief. I'd say loosen the truss rod a quarter turn - I usually shoot for .010 or .015 at the 7th.

Edit: The outer strings going flat is def because of those screws though. You need to get the strings off of them. Sometimes it isn't possible within the bounds of a normal setup - in which case I'd recommend flipping those two screws or installing smaller headed ones to get them out of the way.

The height of your bridge looks fine to me, though.

I would also suggest/agree that your action is quite low. I usually shoot for 5/64 on the bass side and 4/64 on the treble side or so.

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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by krossfader » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:32 am

In my opinion that's pretty high bridge height for a Staytrem on a JM, OP. It's not crazy or anything, but the fact that it's sitting where it is and your action is still that low suggests that the guitar has some angle built into the neck pocket even without the shim. I don't have a Vintera but Fender seems to be doing this as standard practice for offsets in the last several years. My AV65 is the same way.
Its on the high end. I mean without individual height adjust maybe we can say its too high when the string tough the back??
And action is very low.
Plus it could be tilted forward (or just photo angle?) Which prevents the proper rocking with the trem so may cause tuning issues, and the strings on the back.

High bridge ime tend to be more likely to end up uncentred sometimes.
I agree. Staytrems like to be a little low because of that back lip. I had this tuning issue, along with the E strings contacting the bridge lip and the trem screws. I ended up reverse-shimming the neck to get some of that angle out and flipping the 2 outside screws on the trem.

You asked if that trem screw contact matters; it affects your tuning stability and if you use the trem enough you will saw through the strings (at least the high E).

You could try going to the smaller shim to get those strings clear of the bridge. If it doesn't work, or if you like more bridge height, try going without the shim and raising the Staytrem up a little. It's a bit of trial and error with each instrument, as well as how you play, personal preference, etc.

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Re: Is my bridge too high? also tuning problems.

Post by jorri » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:58 am

I did misread 12th fret action though as its usually at the 17th fret so possibly ok? Usually its stated at that fret at least fender recommends 4-5/64" from high to low or thereabouts as a starting point (about 63-79 thou)

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