Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

For help with setups and other technical issues.
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soul1
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Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by soul1 » Sat May 22, 2021 10:17 pm

Anyone have any experience with the Duncan SJAG-1 and SJAG-2 Jaguar pickups? These have been around for ages, but don't really get a lot of mentions, and aren't many clips online. How do they sound?

I was thinking of getting the Vintage model for the neck, and the Hot model for the bridge. I'm wondering if these would be an improvement over the CV Jag pickups, which actually aren't bad at all.

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Re: Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by Embenny » Sun May 23, 2021 5:06 pm

The old pickups in the VM Jags were just offshore-made versions ("Duncan Designed") of exactly those models - vintage neck and hot bridge. I always presumed the CV pickups just used the same basic formula but cut Duncan out of the equation to save on royalties. The resistance reading and tone demos certainly seem very close.

So, the question is - what problem are you trying to solve by changing pickups? If you're looking for a clear, low-inductance neck pickup like the Duncan Vintage and a midrangey, overwound bridge pickup like the Duncan Hot, you've got that already.
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Re: Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by soul1 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:28 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 5:06 pm
The old pickups in the VM Jags were just offshore-made versions ("Duncan Designed") of exactly those models - vintage neck and hot bridge. I always presumed the CV pickups just used the same basic formula but cut Duncan out of the equation to save on royalties. The resistance reading and tone demos certainly seem very close.

So, the question is - what problem are you trying to solve by changing pickups? If you're looking for a clear, low-inductance neck pickup like the Duncan Vintage and a midrangey, overwound bridge pickup like the Duncan Hot, you've got that already.
I don't mind the CV pickups, but just want a little more out of them, and the SDs may provide that? For example, the CV neck pickup is slightly underwound under 6k, and the SD neck is a little more than that. Same with the bridge pickup. So it's basically me wanting a little more output than the CVs without going too hot, and also wanting to stay reasonably affordable (under $150 for a set)

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Re: Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by Embenny » Sun May 23, 2021 8:50 pm

Is it output you want, or a darker pickup whose resonant frequency has been shifted down a bit?

Because a few things happen when you overwind an otherwise identical pickup. Inductance goes up, resonant frequency goes down, and output goes up. If you want very slightly more output, make sure your pickup height has been maximized - that'll make a bigger difference than a 10% overwind. If you want a lower resonant frequency, you can just add capacitance. Jimi Hendrix and Carlos Santana both used long cables to drop the resonant frequency of their pickups into the 2kHz range like a really overwound humbucker - just a stock strat and a curly coil did it for Jimi.

It's less sexy, but by experimenting with a couple of tiny caps or a long patch cord, you can get your pickups to sound just like they've been overwound with more of turns of wire.

Absolute voltage output is really not a compelling reason to change pickups in 2021. It was a popular approach when most amps were non-master-volume and drive pedal selection was minimal (forget about clean boosts).

Raising the frequency of the resonant peak is tougher (it requires introducing a low-resistance inductor), but dropping it is a simple matter of capacitance, so a touch of gain or boost plus a cap or cable can save you 15% on car insurance.

Those are things I'd do before spending money on new pickups, but lots of people change pickups looking for incremental changes.
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Re: Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by ohm-men » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:11 am

soul1 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:28 pm
mbene085 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 5:06 pm
The old pickups in the VM Jags were just offshore-made versions ("Duncan Designed") of exactly those models - vintage neck and hot bridge. I always presumed the CV pickups just used the same basic formula but cut Duncan out of the equation to save on royalties. The resistance reading and tone demos certainly seem very close.

So, the question is - what problem are you trying to solve by changing pickups? If you're looking for a clear, low-inductance neck pickup like the Duncan Vintage and a midrangey, overwound bridge pickup like the Duncan Hot, you've got that already.
I don't mind the CV pickups, but just want a little more out of them, and the SDs may provide that? For example, the CV neck pickup is slightly underwound under 6k, and the SD neck is a little more than that. Same with the bridge pickup. So it's basically me wanting a little more output than the CVs without going too hot, and also wanting to stay reasonably affordable (under $150 for a set)
My 2 cents on the subject. I have a CV Squier Jaguar that has a SJAG 1 (vintage) in the neck and a (SJAG2) Hot in the bridge. So these were a direct replacement of the Fender Desinged CV Jaguar pick ups, which are exactly the same as the DD VM Squier pick ups. (Yes, I had all three sets at the same time)

My observations;

CV and VM sound exactly the same, measurements are the same about 6-ish K for the necks, 12.5 K for the bridge. Construction is the same, as are the magnets, wire, etc... In short they are a good set of modren sounding Jaguar pick ups. I liked both sets quiet a bit.

I also read that the VM Duncan Desinged Jaguar Squier PU set was based on the SD SJAG 1 (neck) and SJAG2 (Bridge)
So, I put these to the test. The Duncan's sound a bit different the Duncan Desinged, mostly due to the materials used (Wire, magnets, etc...)
Duncan claims that the SJAG 1 and 2 have calibrated magnets and the usual blah, blah...

Soundwise they have a little more depth then the VM and CV pick ups, they sound somewhat more dimensional. they sound a bit fuller, more balanced, more noticable mids. (at least to my ears) but, yes.... there is a BUT.... The SJAG 1 and2 are notoriously microphonic, this surprised me as both the VM and CV's are not. I actually find this a bit anoying for a set higher priced pick ups....

The output of the Duncan SJAG 1 (neck) is a little less then the VM DD and CV FD neck, but overall they sound pretty simelar

The output or the SJAG 2 (bridge) is a bit more then the VM DD and the CV FD, the latter are arround 12.5/13 K, where the SJAG 2 is a full +14K.
I also found the SJAG 2 is a bit more bass heavy then the DD or FD Squier pick ups. (this is noticble when Fuzz is used, it sounds a bit fuller, perhaps even better balanced) On the other hand, my 9.5K Pick up wizzard Jazzmaster bridge pu sounds much bigger then the SJAG 2 in the Jag, despite the latter being much hotter....

I also noticed that the middle position with the SJAG 1 and 2 sounds somewhat fuller, when effects are used the Duncan's perhaps sound a bit nicer when compared to the Squier counterparts.

My verdict, I kind of like the SJAG 1, it sounds pretty much like a run of the mill 60's Fender Jaguar pick up. The SJAG2 Hot bridge I'm not that keen on to be honnest, it gains little on the VM or CV stock bridge, mostly due to the microphonics... It has no real advantages over the stock Squier bridge pick ups imho...
Perhaps I can get more out of the Duncan set if I replace all the Squier wiring, swithes, etc.... (I did replace the pots with CTS and used a switchcraft jack...)
I just think nowadays there are better options with all the boutique winders that will get you the desired sound...

In short, if you like the VM or CV stock pick ups and you are looking for something different, then don't go with the SJAG1/SJAG2 combo imho.
If you need more output, perhaps consider the SJAG3 (QP set) with the big magnets! They sound huge and love high gain (just not my prefered sound)
If you want vintage, then I guess a Fender AVRI 62 or 65 set might be more to your liking.... I just don't think that hotter pick ups make up for a hugher sounding guitar, at least not in my expierence... Although milage might vary...

I think both the VM and CV Jaguar's are really nice guitars and very, very good bang for buck!!!
And the stock pu's are also quiet good. Imho, the Duncan SJAG1/2 combo is perhaps a small improvement... I would certainly not do it again....

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Re: Any Duncan Vintage & Hot Jag (SJAG-1/ SJAG-2) users?

Post by soul1 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:47 pm

ohm-men wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:11 am
soul1 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:28 pm
mbene085 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 5:06 pm
The old pickups in the VM Jags were just offshore-made versions ("Duncan Designed") of exactly those models - vintage neck and hot bridge. I always presumed the CV pickups just used the same basic formula but cut Duncan out of the equation to save on royalties. The resistance reading and tone demos certainly seem very close.

So, the question is - what problem are you trying to solve by changing pickups? If you're looking for a clear, low-inductance neck pickup like the Duncan Vintage and a midrangey, overwound bridge pickup like the Duncan Hot, you've got that already.
I don't mind the CV pickups, but just want a little more out of them, and the SDs may provide that? For example, the CV neck pickup is slightly underwound under 6k, and the SD neck is a little more than that. Same with the bridge pickup. So it's basically me wanting a little more output than the CVs without going too hot, and also wanting to stay reasonably affordable (under $150 for a set)
My 2 cents on the subject. I have a CV Squier Jaguar that has a SJAG 1 (vintage) in the neck and a (SJAG2) Hot in the bridge. So these were a direct replacement of the Fender Desinged CV Jaguar pick ups, which are exactly the same as the DD VM Squier pick ups. (Yes, I had all three sets at the same time)

My observations;

CV and VM sound exactly the same, measurements are the same about 6-ish K for the necks, 12.5 K for the bridge. Construction is the same, as are the magnets, wire, etc... In short they are a good set of modren sounding Jaguar pick ups. I liked both sets quiet a bit.

I also read that the VM Duncan Desinged Jaguar Squier PU set was based on the SD SJAG 1 (neck) and SJAG2 (Bridge)
So, I put these to the test. The Duncan's sound a bit different the Duncan Desinged, mostly due to the materials used (Wire, magnets, etc...)
Duncan claims that the SJAG 1 and 2 have calibrated magnets and the usual blah, blah...

Soundwise they have a little more depth then the VM and CV pick ups, they sound somewhat more dimensional. they sound a bit fuller, more balanced, more noticable mids. (at least to my ears) but, yes.... there is a BUT.... The SJAG 1 and2 are notoriously microphonic, this surprised me as both the VM and CV's are not. I actually find this a bit anoying for a set higher priced pick ups....

The output of the Duncan SJAG 1 (neck) is a little less then the VM DD and CV FD neck, but overall they sound pretty simelar

The output or the SJAG 2 (bridge) is a bit more then the VM DD and the CV FD, the latter are arround 12.5/13 K, where the SJAG 2 is a full +14K.
I also found the SJAG 2 is a bit more bass heavy then the DD or FD Squier pick ups. (this is noticble when Fuzz is used, it sounds a bit fuller, perhaps even better balanced) On the other hand, my 9.5K Pick up wizzard Jazzmaster bridge pu sounds much bigger then the SJAG 2 in the Jag, despite the latter being much hotter....

I also noticed that the middle position with the SJAG 1 and 2 sounds somewhat fuller, when effects are used the Duncan's perhaps sound a bit nicer when compared to the Squier counterparts.

My verdict, I kind of like the SJAG 1, it sounds pretty much like a run of the mill 60's Fender Jaguar pick up. The SJAG2 Hot bridge I'm not that keen on to be honnest, it gains little on the VM or CV stock bridge, mostly due to the microphonics... It has no real advantages over the stock Squier bridge pick ups imho...
Perhaps I can get more out of the Duncan set if I replace all the Squier wiring, swithes, etc.... (I did replace the pots with CTS and used a switchcraft jack...)
I just think nowadays there are better options with all the boutique winders that will get you the desired sound...

In short, if you like the VM or CV stock pick ups and you are looking for something different, then don't go with the SJAG1/SJAG2 combo imho.
If you need more output, perhaps consider the SJAG3 (QP set) with the big magnets! They sound huge and love high gain (just not my prefered sound)
If you want vintage, then I guess a Fender AVRI 62 or 65 set might be more to your liking.... I just don't think that hotter pick ups make up for a hugher sounding guitar, at least not in my expierence... Although milage might vary...

I think both the VM and CV Jaguar's are really nice guitars and very, very good bang for buck!!!
And the stock pu's are also quiet good. Imho, the Duncan SJAG1/2 combo is perhaps a small improvement... I would certainly not do it again....
Thanks for the reply, very informative stuff here. The fact that the SD's are a bit microphonic (and the Squiers aren't) is an important distinction.

But, as I recently posted in the Squier CV Jag megathread, I just measured the CV Jag pickups in a late 2020 model a few days ago, and they are in fact different the VM models, and the earlier CV Jag pickups. Seems like they started using different pickups for these recently. So the CV and VM Jag pickups are no longer the same. Someone else chimed in and said it's the same pickup they use now in the Squier CV Bass VI.

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