Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:59 pm

I find it funny that he seems to have just shelved his offset model (the Wrayman) in favor of making offset vibratos and bridges. Probably a lot more profit in the latter, and fewer fussy customers to deal with.

To me this bridge is the least elegant looking of the fancy options, but would be good for solving a few specific problems or for folks who want to experiment with rocking vs. non-rocking.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:25 am

I just read the Instagram post thread, interesting that he's getting orders from builders at 12" and 9.5" but not 7.25", which he seems to feel is something that will only sell as a Fender replacement part. I always find it very interesting when builders don't use the 7.25".

There is still a bias against that, you know? I never understood it.

The price is meh, a day's wages and you get a guitar bridge. And I have to say, I just don't see what this does all that much better than the StayTrem to account for the price difference. At this price, you might as well get a Mastery (if you like those) or just save yourself $70 and get a StayTrem.

I don't mean to be negative, it certainly is a great looking bridge and I have no doubt that it will serve well. It's also possible I'm missing some application here that makes it a game changer.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by ek11sx » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:26 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:25 am
I just read the Instagram post thread, interesting that he's getting orders from builders at 12" and 9.5" but not 7.25", which he seems to feel is something that will only sell as a Fender replacement part. I always find it very interesting when builders don't use the 7.25".

There is still a bias against that, you know? I never understood it.

The price is meh, a day's wages and you get a guitar bridge. And I have to say, I just don't see what this does all that much better than the StayTrem to account for the price difference. At this price, you might as well get a Mastery (if you like those) or just save yourself $70 and get a StayTrem.

I don't mean to be negative, it certainly is a great looking bridge and I have no doubt that it will serve well. It's also possible I'm missing some application here that makes it a game changer.
When I put on their vibrato unit my strings were resting on the bridge plate. This would solve that. Other than that and the unique bridge post sleeves I think this is very much like a staytrem.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:31 am

ek11sx wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:26 am
When I put on their vibrato unit my strings were resting on the bridge plate. This would solve that.
Good point. That is certainly something right there.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by AztecGold » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 am

at $165 it's only $15 cheaper than the Mastery bridge, and does not seem to offer any advantages over it.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:55 am

I’d say fixed saddles are an improvement, also Mastery bridges change the sound in a fairly dramatic way that I like but not everyone does.
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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by ek11sx » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 pm

AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 am
at $165 it's only $15 cheaper than the Mastery bridge, and does not seem to offer any advantages over it.
The purpose of this bridge is a companion piece to the vibrato. The vibrato is designed to put more pressure on the saddles. If the vibrato is paired with the mastery then you are using a bridge that thrives on reduced friction with a vibrato that makes more. Anyone who puts a mastery bridge and descendant vibrato on their guitar doesn’t understand how offset vibratos work.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by AztecGold » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 pm

ek11sx wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 pm
AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 am
at $165 it's only $15 cheaper than the Mastery bridge, and does not seem to offer any advantages over it.
The purpose of this bridge is a companion piece to the vibrato. The vibrato is designed to put more pressure on the saddles. If the vibrato is paired with the mastery then you are using a bridge that thrives on reduced friction with a vibrato that makes more. Anyone who puts a mastery bridge and descendant vibrato on their guitar doesn’t understand how offset vibratos work.
If we are talking about the bridge and vibrato combo, why go with the descendent pair over the mastery pair?

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:18 pm

A Mastery bridge can be pretty happy with a shallow break angle. I think that’s a lot of the point, but it’s not rendered useless if you have more break angle.

Lots of ways to get to a setup that’s happy and it’s nice to see another option.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by ek11sx » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:18 am

AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 pm
ek11sx wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 pm
AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 am
at $165 it's only $15 cheaper than the Mastery bridge, and does not seem to offer any advantages over it.
The purpose of this bridge is a companion piece to the vibrato. The vibrato is designed to put more pressure on the saddles. If the vibrato is paired with the mastery then you are using a bridge that thrives on reduced friction with a vibrato that makes more. Anyone who puts a mastery bridge and descendant vibrato on their guitar doesn’t understand how offset vibratos work.
If we are talking about the bridge and vibrato combo, why go with the descendent pair over the mastery pair?
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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by jorri » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:50 am

AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 pm
ek11sx wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 pm
AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 am
at $165 it's only $15 cheaper than the Mastery bridge, and does not seem to offer any advantages over it.
The purpose of this bridge is a companion piece to the vibrato. The vibrato is designed to put more pressure on the saddles. If the vibrato is paired with the mastery then you are using a bridge that thrives on reduced friction with a vibrato that makes more. Anyone who puts a mastery bridge and descendant vibrato on their guitar doesn’t understand how offset vibratos work.
If we are talking about the bridge and vibrato combo, why go with the descendent pair over the mastery pair?
Having used neither, but the bridge:
-mastery has no rocking option.
-mastery changes radius.
-mastery seems like would be strange to adjust intonation on only two saddles.
-its weird overkill redesign but that said descendant is also expensive.
-no chance of strings resting on the back with descendant

And the trem, the descendant has the break angle thing as its main feature.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:09 am

jorri wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:50 am


Having used neither, but the bridge:
-mastery has no rocking option.
-mastery changes radius.
-mastery seems like would be strange to adjust intonation on only two saddles.
-its weird overkill redesign but that said descendant is also expensive.
-no chance of strings resting on the back with descendant

And the trem, the descendant has the break angle thing as its main feature.
Mastery does not change the radius, it has an adjustable radius that will accommodate virtually anything out there (not dead flat, apparently).

Mastery handles intonation just fine on any string set that does not have a wound G.
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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by jorri » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:53 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:09 am
jorri wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:50 am


Having used neither, but the bridge:
-mastery has no rocking option.
-mastery changes radius.
-mastery seems like would be strange to adjust intonation on only two saddles.
-its weird overkill redesign but that said descendant is also expensive.
-no chance of strings resting on the back with descendant

And the trem, the descendant has the break angle thing as its main feature.
Mastery does not change the radius, it has an adjustable radius that will accommodate virtually anything out there (not dead flat, apparently).

Mastery handles intonation just fine on any string set that does not have a wound G.
Yeh those were things i was going for. It changes radius as in the user can change the radius, and intonation seems odd if a wound g or bizzarre alternate tuning.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by AztecGold » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:39 am

jorri wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:50 am
AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 pm
ek11sx wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 pm


The purpose of this bridge is a companion piece to the vibrato. The vibrato is designed to put more pressure on the saddles. If the vibrato is paired with the mastery then you are using a bridge that thrives on reduced friction with a vibrato that makes more. Anyone who puts a mastery bridge and descendant vibrato on their guitar doesn’t understand how offset vibratos work.
If we are talking about the bridge and vibrato combo, why go with the descendent pair over the mastery pair?
Having used neither, but the bridge:
-mastery has no rocking option.
-mastery changes radius.
-mastery seems like would be strange to adjust intonation on only two saddles.
-its weird overkill redesign but that said descendant is also expensive.
-no chance of strings resting on the back with descendant

And the trem, the descendant has the break angle thing as its main feature.
Ok. So it would be if you feel the bridge rocking (and thus the scale length changing) is a good thing.

Some of the above bullets are incorrect, though. The mastery bridge does not change the radius, it can be set to any radius. It gives precise intonation, the saddles can be set to any required position. And the strings cannot touch the back of the bridge plate because there isn't a back.

The whole mastery concept is that the rocking bridge is a bad design that is the source of most of the offset guitars' problems, so if we stabilize the bridge and make it out of materials that allow the string to move freely, the vibrato works even better, sustain is increased, and the guitar will hold intonation. It sounds like descendent has settled on trying to do the rocking bridge design better and that it would be the choice if you like that design and want to try to make it functional.

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Re: Descendant "Companion" Bridge coming soon !

Post by jorri » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:57 am

AztecGold wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:39 am
jorri wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:50 am
AztecGold wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 pm


If we are talking about the bridge and vibrato combo, why go with the descendent pair over the mastery pair?
Having used neither, but the bridge:
-mastery has no rocking option.
-mastery changes radius.
-mastery seems like would be strange to adjust intonation on only two saddles.
-its weird overkill redesign but that said descendant is also expensive.
-no chance of strings resting on the back with descendant

And the trem, the descendant has the break angle thing as its main feature.
Ok. So it would be if you feel the bridge rocking (and thus the scale length changing) is a good thing.

Some of the above bullets are incorrect, though. The mastery bridge does not change the radius, it can be set to any radius. It gives precise intonation, the saddles can be set to any required position. And the strings cannot touch the back of the bridge plate because there isn't a back.

The whole mastery concept is that the rocking bridge is a bad design that is the source of most of the offset guitars' problems, so if we stabilize the bridge and make it out of materials that allow the string to move freely, the vibrato works even better, sustain is increased, and the guitar will hold intonation. It sounds like descendent has settled on trying to do the rocking bridge design better and that it would be the choice if you like that design and want to try to make it functional.
Aside from the back plate, it is what was meant - you can "change the radius" on mastery.
-you can only put intonation into the general shape of three wound and three plain strings.

As for descendant's, no, it seems a lot of effort made for a non-rocking design which does this alignment thing the mastery wont do (if its needed?). Its just you can also decide to have rocking bridge.

I dont know about frictionless materials, which could be an advantage on mastery style non-rocking, and if you had it rocking, a disadvantage since that requires some friction to ensure the string just rolls and returns to the same position.

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