Swope Descendant Vibrato

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augur
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by augur » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:13 am

The Halon vibrato plays and feels very very similar to the Mastery one. It is as smooth.
If you live in Europe, I would recommend to purchase from Halon because you can save almost 100€.
Haris (owner of Halon) is very responsive and delivery is quick.

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GAZINGUK
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by GAZINGUK » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:32 am

augur wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:13 am
The Halon vibrato plays and feels very very similar to the Mastery one. It is as smooth.
If you live in Europe, I would recommend to purchase from Halon because you can save almost 100€.
Haris (owner of Halon) is very responsive and delivery is quick.
I'm in the UK and when I spoke to Haris about the AOM bridge for the Thurston Moore Jazzmaster he was very nice and informative. The problem is his website and marketing. Each lacks information for the end user and a lot of the offset products are by word of mouth; they are not listed in detail on his website. Photos can be seen on his social media pages and I know you can contact him directly, but it would be handy if he would just list everything he makes or can make along with the prices.

With regards to his Jazzmaster vibrato, does it have an improved spring, and what's the situation with the arm? Does it stay in place? Is it like the Staytrem upgrade or more like the Mastery system?

augur
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by augur » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:14 am

With regards to his Jazzmaster vibrato, does it have an improved spring, and what's the situation with the arm? Does it stay in place? Is it like the Staytrem upgrade or more like the Mastery system?
It looks like an improved spring and collet. The piece itself is much heavier than the original Fender one. Actually same weight than the Descendant (as I could compare).
Arm can stay in place in horizontal position (parallel to the strings) onlt on mine, bur I didn't try to adjust this part. You may ask Haris as this is maybe a think you can adjust.
It is true marketing is the weakness of Halon regarding this subject. If Haris would have made more promotion before, he would probably have sold more.
But I really think you can trust this guy. I have had good communication with him through facebook, and been delivered in 2 weeks.

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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by jellodog » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:22 pm

I received a Descendant vibrato unit a few days ago. Swapped out the Fender vibrato. The Descendant is a great unit and I'm really pleased with it.

The unit that I received was slightly lighter than the Fender AVRI vibrato unit that I had installed. It's very a nicely machined product - build quality is excellent.

So why did I by the Descendent? Well, I made a partsmaster JM that was detailed here a few years back (it's my avatar). This Jazzmaster has always sounded and played pretty well and I've generally been pleased with it. However, I've got a 1.5 degree shim in the neck pocket in order to get the break angle that I need and because of that, my geometry is such that my bridge is jacked up a little high and so are my pickups. Now I have seen a few Jazzmasters with similarly high pickups, so I'm not the only one, but it has always slightly irritated me that my JM was like this.

Years later, I have realised why I always had an issue with my neck pocket seeming too shallow for my neck. The body of my guitar was based on a '62 JM body (IIRC - it was a few years ago when I bought it)... but I read recently that fender manufactured the necks to be deeper at some point later in the 60s. Anyway, I finally realised why I've always had this geometry issue - because of my mismatched eras. Regardless, I saw the Descendant whilst browsing Offsetguitars and realised that I could finally complete my JM to have the geometry that I always wanted it to have.

I took out the 0.5 degree shim (leaving the 1.0), dropped in the Descendant vibrato, lowered my bridge and pickups to a more reasonable height (probably average for a JM) and finally everything is perfect. I had also hoped that even after removing the shim there would be enough extra added break angle that I would still have more break angle than I started with, and that is what happened. I can definitely hear more sustain and a richer fuller tone from the JM. It always sounded pretty good, but now it sounds like one of the best JM tones one could wish for.

One thing that wasn't clear to me, before receiving the Descendant, that I would like to clarify: Some reviews made it sound like you have to use the arm tension adjustment tool to take the vibrato arm in and out every time you take your guitar out of its case. This is simply not true of the unit I received. You adjust the arm grip tension to your desired setting once and that's it. To take the arm in an out, you point the tip of the arm up towards the sky (i.e. your face if you're holding the guitar in a playing position) and the arm slips in and out. It's actually even easier to insert and remove than a staytrem arm (which was on my Fender vibrato unit).
Last edited by jellodog on Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:37 pm

Well, I bought one. Should be here next week. It'll replace the AVRI unit I have on my MIJ Jazzmaster. So, it should be something of an upgrade I guess.

No need for extra break angle on this one, though, it's sitting pretty high thanks to the shim and sounds great as is. But I think it'll be fun regardless, and it's a good chance to do some further upgrades on my oldest and most favorite guitar.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by thisisnickpaige » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:39 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:37 pm
Well, I bought one. Should be here next week. It'll replace the AVRI unit I have on my MIJ Jazzmaster. So, it should be something of an upgrade I guess.

No need for extra break angle on this one, though, it's sitting pretty high thanks to the shim and sounds great as is. But I think it'll be fun regardless, and it's a good chance to do some further upgrades on my oldest and most favorite guitar.
You'll have to let us know it is! I must say i am deeply curious as to how it feels. I was sold on the fact you could adjust collet tension on the fly (why hasn't any other company done this yet?!) But i can't say i'm keen on the look.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:30 am

thisisnickpaige wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:39 am


You'll have to let us know it is! I must say i am deeply curious as to how it feels. I was sold on the fact you could adjust collet tension on the fly (why hasn't any other company done this yet?!) But i can't say i'm keen on the look.
I'll be sure to put up some pictures and a review. Frankly, this will be me having a vibrato unit that functions at all on my Jazzmasters. I have an AVRI with a Mastery, and I cannot get the bar to stay in and I think I might have damaged it trying to make that happen. I kind of gave up on it (I don't really use a lot of vibrato anyway).

With this MIJ Jazzmaster, I don't even know where the actual vibrato bar is and haven't for years.

Not sure I'll be the best reviewer, in other words. But I've been kind of getting into the idea of using vibrato more and I especially wanted one on a Jazzmaster again.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by tammyw » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:02 am

I'm not fan of the Descendant. The internals are 30% thinner sheet metal than an AVRI or Mastery unit. Also the plate is bent in a smooth curve where it contacts the pivot point, where the AVRI has a hard kink pressed into it to form the pivot, and the Mastery has a nice groove milled into it. Also I don't like the rough edges where it was cut with a water jet or laser or whatever, I think some of them should have been smoothed better, especially some of the sharp edges where the ball of the string sits. Also I think stringing it is a bit awkward, and the three "fingers" that line up with the holes where you insert the strings don't support anything underneath, so they could have just been chopped short, or shaped so they don't have sharp corners there when you're trying to get the strings out or in.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:37 am

Mine is arriving today I see, apparently I have one of the very early ones. The Reverb seller contacted me about some other parts of the package that he had, some documentation, and the Allen key and so on, and he saw that it was listed as a prototype.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:38 pm

It's... fine, I guess?

Well, I don't like the stringing method much.

I suppose that it doesn't need the locking switch on there because from what I can tell so far, it simply does not bend up in pitch in any way. This is a little jarring because the Mastery vibrato unit does bend up in pitch a fair amount, and even the AVRI unit does a bit. But I don't see how this one would at all.

Bear in mind I just put it on like an hour ago. I don't have the manual yet. I could be missing something.

It's stiff, that's for sure. Not a bad feel. This is just opinion.

It looks pretty sharp. I do like the way the strings are not on the screws any more. I haven't adjusted the vibrato arm at all, but I can say that it is easy to maneuver and yet it stays exactly where you leave it.

This guitar has a great, resonant acoustic sound to it and wonderful sustain. This vibrato hasn't changed that in any way.

Kind of a lateral move. I'll spend a little more time with it. I think offhand the Mastery unit is a little better, different, though. I think that the Mastery unit and this one are expensive for what they really add to the experience.

In both cases, the thing I was most excited about between the Mastery and this Descendant unit in the end seems to be that the string is no longer laying on the screws. Otherwise, the stock AVRI functionality is about as good.

I know that the whole point of this unit is to avoid having to shim the neck, but shit, a $20 shim or a $175 vibrato unit, you know? And shims bring other benefits.

Oh, and if you hit this unit's arm with your pick or your hand, it makes a very loud vibrating noise... sounds kind of like a Vibra-Slap, if you know those. It's much louder than anything your string is producing. This might go away when I learn to set it up.

I might revise this opinion in the upcoming days, but so far... it's fine.

Edit: I should also mention that this vibrato really wants to do the traditional Jazzmaster vibrato thing. It's good for very shallow movements, slow washes and so forth. This isn't a bad thing or anything, my point is, even though this is a new unit and has a modern look, it is very conservative in its execution and it is, in the end, an absolutely traditional Fender Jazzmaster type vibrato and that's the sound it delivers.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by JSett » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:18 am

thisisnickpaige wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:39 am
I was sold on the fact you could adjust collet tension on the fly (why hasn't any other company done this yet?!) But i can't say i'm keen on the look.
I can’t say I’ve ever felt the need to adjust the collect tension once after initial install on my Mastery units. In fact they came pretty much perfect from the factory for me. I can’t see many people needing to adjust that function more than once or twice and then just leave it the hell alone forever.

But then, guitarists can be weird and some are incessant ‘fiddlers’

I also am not a fan of the look. I don’t find it’s aesthetic design particularly elegant. It looks kooky
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by thisisnickpaige » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:06 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:18 am
I can’t say I’ve ever felt the need to adjust the collect tension ...they came pretty much perfect from the factory for me.
I also am not a fan of the look. I don’t find it’s aesthetic design particularly elegant. It looks kooky

That's good to hear. I can't wait (2-3 more weeks to deal with this clunky trem) !

Yeah, it makes me feel weird lookin at it. Like some dental tool or some sort of harvesting farm equipment.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by adamrobertt » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30 am

tammyw and Larry pretty much sum my feelings about this unit up. I do also think it's pretty ugly, which matters to me. It's fine, I'm not gonna say it's junk or anything, just really not for me.

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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:16 am

adamrobertt wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30 am
tammyw and Larry pretty much sum my feelings about this unit up. I do also think it's pretty ugly, which matters to me. It's fine, I'm not gonna say it's junk or anything, just really not for me.
I mean, it's fine... I won't be taking it off or anything. I don't think I would buy another, so make of that what you will.

I am also kind of realizing that I basically don't really like the Jazzmaster type vibrato very much at all, no matter what kind it is, so maybe bear that in mind. I'm realizing I'm a Strat vibrato guy, even then I don't like vibrato much. It's just not my thing.

The main thing I like about the Jazzmaster vibrato is the added harmonic content it brings, which I love. But the use of the thing to change the pitch of the strings I don't really care much about.
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Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by jondom22 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:31 am

For those who've played both a Mastery and Swope Descendant Vibrato, which has more overall range of pitch bend? I had an old MIM that sucked and never used, bought a swope descendant earlier this year and have been happy with it, though I'd love to have a bit more range.

FWIW I use 12-52 gauge strings
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