Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

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GilmourD
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by GilmourD » Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:21 pm

vns wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:25 am
GilmourD wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:20 am
  • When you actuate the trem, do you see the bridge moving back and forth? Do you see any point where the bridge isn't moving (even if just a tiny bit)?
It moves, but it moves noticeable more on the treble side.
Does it track with the strings on both sides or do you notice any slipping? Also, is the point of the height screw cleanly seated in the middle of the saddle?

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alexpigment
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by alexpigment » Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:15 pm

This is going to be purely anecdotal, but I had this problem once when using the *MIM* vibrato unit on a particular guitar. Trem down was fine, trem up would make it go out of tune. I messed around with it quite a bit to resolve the problem, but I eventually just slapped an AVRI trem in it, and the problem went away. Without being terribly scientific, I believe the problem was related to the spring and/or metal cup that holds the spring on.

I hope that you're able to find a solution that works for you, but if you get desperate and have a little bit of cash lying around, the AVRI solved this problem *for me*.

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GilmourD
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by GilmourD » Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:04 pm

alexpigment wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:15 pm
This is going to be purely anecdotal, but I had this problem once when using the *MIM* vibrato unit on a particular guitar. Trem down was fine, trem up would make it go out of tune. I messed around with it quite a bit to resolve the problem, but I eventually just slapped an AVRI trem in it, and the problem went away. Without being terribly scientific, I believe the problem was related to the spring and/or metal cup that holds the spring on.

I hope that you're able to find a solution that works for you, but if you get desperate and have a little bit of cash lying around, the AVRI solved this problem *for me*.
I had one CV trem that would go out of tune because the pivot plate wasn't smooth so it would actually sit in a different spot, but I also heard knocking and popping when I used the trem as it would shift. I took that trem apart and did the sanding trick on the pivot plate and it worked great afterwards.

That might still be a good idea here.

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alexpigment
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by alexpigment » Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:40 pm

GilmourD wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:04 pm
I had one CV trem that would go out of tune because the pivot plate wasn't smooth so it would actually sit in a different spot, but I also heard knocking and popping when I used the trem as it would shift. I took that trem apart and did the sanding trick on the pivot plate and it worked great afterwards.

That might still be a good idea here.
As mentioned, my post was anecdotal and not scientific :) If there's a way to solve the OP's problem without any money and coming at it with a keen and thoughtful eye, that is the ideal solution. I would have probably never been able to identify the problem you did with your CV trem.

The knocking you mentioned has happened to some degree out of the box with every trem I've tried *except* for the AVRI, so I think the AVRI is a good starting point if the OP isn't handy enough to identify imperfections in the metal. For what it's worth, I still think the MIM trem just didn't have the right spring and/or the cup it sits on for the gauge of string I was using (10-46); whether or not that caused the tuning issue only when pulling up, I can't be absolutely certain.

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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by vns » Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:55 am

I got 11s, set up the guitar with them and the problem persists, so I am discarding strings gauge as the problem. All I can do is get to the point where the guitar gets equally out of tuning when pushing or pulling. Obviously I prefer to having it stable when pushing, I can do the whole pull/push movement as long as I finish in a push movement.
GilmourD wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:21 pm
Does it track with the strings on both sides or do you notice any slipping? Also, is the point of the height screw cleanly seated in the middle of the saddle?
I would say there is no slipping, and all strings go off-tune equally.

@alexpigment I was considering the ARVI or even the Panorama. It maybe the trem after all

I was doing some research and I saw that the Panorama doesn't work with 11s because of the spring and I wouldn't like to go down rabbit whole at the moment. And the ARVI....well, it is just the old design with its flaws and it is a little bit expensive, I can get the trem for 106€ + the bar 26€ and it seems I also need a tip for the bar :'( I can get the full Panorama for 229€. Money is not a problem, but I am wondering if the guitar (being MIM) is worth it at this point. Once thing I would like to ask though, are these trems 100% compatible with my guitar? all I am willing to do is screw the new one in place. Also, does the Panorama work well with the vintage style bridge?

Another thing I noticed is that it seems that the guitar has a shim in its pocket, I didn't remove it, but I can see an angled gap there, I should replace whatever they put there (I saw in youtube a small piece of sandpaper in a Squier's :fp: ) with a proper shim.

I hate having problems with my guitars, I just put it back in its case and I don't want to play it.

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GilmourD
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by GilmourD » Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:10 am

vns wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:55 am
I can get the trem for 106€ + the bar 26€ and it seems I also need a tip for the bar :'(
Oof... why is that price so high? I paid US$70 for mine from GuitarAudio on Reverb versus the list price of $129 from Fender. And that was to put it on a Squier Classic Vibe.

I dunno what shipping would do to this price for you, but this might make it easier to swallow:
https://reverb.com/item/16760693

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vns
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by vns » Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:24 am

GilmourD wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:10 am
I dunno what shipping would do to this price for you, but this might make it easier to swallow:
https://reverb.com/item/16760693
I checked Reverb yesterday also, and I was getting around 30€ in shipping costs, so...

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GilmourD
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by GilmourD » Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:56 am

vns wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:24 am
GilmourD wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:10 am
I dunno what shipping would do to this price for you, but this might make it easier to swallow:
https://reverb.com/item/16760693
I checked Reverb yesterday also, and I was getting around 30€ in shipping costs, so...
What country are you in?

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vns
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by vns » Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:46 am

Spain.

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DeathJag
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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by DeathJag » Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:21 am

vns wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:55 am
I hate having problems with my guitars, I just put it back in its case and I don't want to play it.
I can totally relate. Like when an amp has a pedal pop no matter what, I just end up never playing that amp.

I had a similar problem with a Mastery trem, Staytrem bridge, and a corian nut. It only seemed to really affect the low E, but that string would go wildly sharp whenever I pulled the trem up. I had the nut worked on and that helped a ton, but it's still an issue. My "fix" is to tune the low E flat, then pull the trem until it's in tune. It seems to stay in tune that way, but I eventually plan to replace the nut with (gag) a bone one that's black. Apparently water buffalo get killed for other reasons, and then folks use their black colored bones for guitar nuts. So the nut is a byproduct which make it a tiny bit more palatable, I guess. I actually hate the idea of that so I've just been doing the "pull up" tuning method. It stinks. I even have a pal who can cut nuts and I'm still not ready to fix it. Anyhow, for me it was the nut.

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Re: Tuning stability problem only when pulling the tremolo bar

Post by andare » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:17 am

GilmourD wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:10 am
vns wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:55 am
I can get the trem for 106€ + the bar 26€ and it seems I also need a tip for the bar :'(
Oof... why is that price so high? I paid US$70 for mine from GuitarAudio on Reverb versus the list price of $129 from Fender. And that was to put it on a Squier Classic Vibe.

I dunno what shipping would do to this price for you, but this might make it easier to swallow:
https://reverb.com/item/16760693
Every American product costs a lot more in Europe. And retailers don't offer discounts, usually. Some do price matching but there is nothing comparable to retail vs street price in the US.
It's why I tried to fix my Squier vibrato with tools instead of buying the AVRI. It works unless I pull on the bar, just like OP. But I never need to pull on the arm and I saved well over 100 euros.

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